Cotton ceiling 2.0 - Bev Jackson

[IwantToRetire]

VODA is promoting an app called “Exploring Lesbian Culture for Trans Femme”. Remember: “trans femmes” are male. The app focuses entirely on the validation of the “trans femmes”, without any acknowledgment that other people — you know, women — may be involved.

A few choice quotes from this lovely app:

• “Through self-awareness and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, or ACT, exercises, you will explore your feelings, identify values, and develop strategies to integrate into the community while honouring your identity.”
• “Whilst your journey may differ from that of a cisgender lesbian, remember that your trans identity is beautiful and deserves respect.”
• “You might feel excited, anxious, or curious about this new experience. What aspects of lesbian culture intrigue or concern you the most?”
• “Remember, this journey is about more than just finding acceptance; it’s about claiming your space and asserting your right to be part of communities that uplift and empower you.”

This is essentially an invasion manual. It shamelessly encourages men who self-define as lesbians to “claim their space” in the lesbian community.

Four of the six-strong VODA team are also BACP members.

From a longer article at https://thecritic.co.uk/cotton-ceiling-2-0/

Fucks sake!

well they can try and”claim their space” all they like to. EDI does not stretch to real life. Thank goodness for LGB alliance. This bunch of nit wits live in an alternative reality, and as we all know a man is a man.

Never expected to long for the days shen men saying "I'm a lesbian: I fancy women!" Was a bad joke not a f**king mission statement!!!

it’s about claiming your space and asserting your right to be part of communities

That's not how communities work - you can't just bully your way in. No man has any space or right to claim in a lesbian community.

Just downloaded the app to see what this is about. It's tucked away in their "Trans+ Library" section, here's some screenshots:

Queer led meditations?

I think those should be approached with caution! 🤣

Just had a listen to it, it's a series of audio recordings, with pauses to write some notes in the app's journal. I've recorded the programme and used an AI to make a transcript:

---

---

Welcome to this programme on exploring lesbian culture as a transwoman or trans+ femme person.

As you begin to explore a new culture and community, you may feel unsure about acceptance and how you will fit in. Whilst your journey may differ from that of a cisgender lesbian, remember that your trans identity is beautiful and deserves respect.

It's understandable to have concerns about how your trans identity will be perceived and whether you will find spaces where you feel truly accepted. These feelings are valid, and an important part of your journey.

Take a moment to think about how you feel about exploring lesbian culture for the first time as a transwoman or trans+ femme person. Reflect on these emotions and take the first step towards understanding your feelings.

You might feel excited, anxious or curious about this new experience. What aspects of lesbian culture, intrigue or concern you the most? Enter your thoughts and feelings in the app now.

---

Now, start thinking about what expectations you have about how you will be received in lesbian spaces as a transwoman or trans+ femme person. Allow yourself to consider both your hopes and fears.

You might be concerned about whether the lesbian community will fully accept your trans identity. Perhaps you worry that some people might not understand or respect your identity. Whilst these concerns are normal, they can overshadow positive experiences awaiting you. Many spaces will be inclusive and affirming, with people keen to learn and support you.

What expectations do you have about how you will be received in lesbian spaces as a transwoman or trans+ femme person? Reflect on these thoughts, and enter your feelings into the app now.

---

Navigating lesbian culture as a transwoman or trans femme person is no easy feat. The challenges you face are real and significant, and acknowledging them is a crucial first step.

Ignoring these challenges can lead to feelings of isolation, anxiety and distress. It can create distance from others, and hinder your ability to connect within the lesbian community.

Whether you are beginning this journey or have already started, embrace the emotions you feel. Each feeling is valid. The goal here is to support you where you are now, and continue at your pace.

Next, we will walk you through an exercise called Identifying Values, using Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, or AC, to support your mental well-being.

---

Thank you for continuing with this program. We will now embark on a therapeutic exercise called Identifying Values. This will help guide your steps and decisions in exploring lesbian culture.

In this exercise, you'll identify your core values, which can provide clarity and direction for navigating new complex social experiences as a trans person. By clarifying your core values, you'll be better equipped to navigate the complexities of integrating into new social spaces as a trans woman or trans femme person.

These values will serve as your compass, guiding you toward environments where you feel truly seen and respected.

As we proceed through this exercise together, you will uncover what you value most. This will help you find supportive communities, integrate authentically, and honour your identity in lesbian spaces.

---

We'll now go through this exercise together. Begin by focusing on identifying qualities or values important to you. This process can provide insight into what you seek in a supportive lesbian community.

When thinking about what you value most in a supportive lesbian community, consider qualities or values that make you feel comfortable, accepted, and respected for who you are.

Examples might include: seeking empathy and understanding, where people listen and care. Or, perhaps you value an environment that's fun and adventurous, filled with activities and new experiences.

List qualities or values that are important to you in a supportive lesbian community. Take a moment to reflect on these thoughts and enter them into the app now. This will guide your journey.

---

Thank you for sharing the qualities or values that are important to you. Now think about local or online lesbian groups or organizations that could meet your needs, based on these values.

Consider organizations that align with your values. Inclusive lesbian sports groups at an LGBT community centre, a lesbian choir, or even a local board game meet up could be good places to start.

Reflect on how these groups might support your values. Engaging with these organizations can help you build connections, gain support, and immerse yourself in a like-minded affirming lesbian community.

Reflect on these ideas. Based on your qualities and values, identify a few kinds of online lesbian groups or organizations that could meet your needs. Please write your answer in the app.

In the future, you can refer to this list to find local or regional organizations that meet your needs.

---

Thank you for sharing the qualities that are important to you.

Now, visualize yourself actively participating in this supportive lesbian community. Try to think about the details of what involvement looks like to you, and how it makes you feel.

Imagine being engaged in a supportive lesbian community, where you feel empathized with and heard. Picture participating in group discussions, sharing experiences and building meaningful connections. Think about joining activities, and how they enhance your social experience.

Perhaps you are in a setting where your identity is respected, and you contribute to various events. You may find yourself forming strong friendships and feeling a sense of belonging.

Reflect on these scenarios. What does active participation in this community look like for you? Write down a detailed description into the app, thinking about your feelings in these moments.

---

Congratulations on completing this therapeutic exercise. You have explored your feelings about engaging with lesbian culture as a transwoman or trans femme person and identified your core values and supportive communities.

Hopefully, identifying values has brought you some clarity. Maybe you've realised the importance of empathy or excitement in your journey. It's okay if benefits aren't clear now; long-term growth comes from ongoing reflection.

As you overcome challenges, positive changes can unfold. Feeling understood and accepted within a community that values your identity can create new friendships, confidence, and a deeper authentic connection to yourself.

This section is now complete. Next, we'll explore final thoughts, to solidify your understanding and enhance your integration within the lesbian community.

---

It can be daunting to enter a new community where you hope to connect with others. You might feel anxious, wondering if your trans identity will be understood and respected.

These fears are valid, especially in a world where trans identities are often misunderstood or marginalised. However, by aligning yourself with communities that reflect your values, you can find spaces where your identity is not just accepted, but celebrated.

Finding inclusive groups that resonate with your values can help mitigate these concerns and provide support. Over time, you will experience moments of genuine connection within these communities.

Feeling understood by others can lead to meaningful friendships and a deeper sense of belonging.

---

In today's programme, you explored your feelings about entering lesbian spaces, and identified valuable support systems. Your willingness to engage in this process is a testament to your strength and commitment to living authentically.

By staying connected to your values, you can create a road map for your journey, leading you to communities where you are both valued and celebrated.

Reflect on your experiences and emotions throughout this programme; ensuring you feel seen and valued is important. Reflecting on these aspects can offer comfort and encourage ongoing personal growth in inclusive communities.

Remember, this journey is about more than just finding acceptance. It's about claiming your space and asserting your right to be part of communities that uplift and empower you. Every step you take is a victory for your self-worth and authenticity.

Feeling unease after listening to all that.

It's remarkably lacking in any effort to have these men consider how lesbian women may feel about such intrusion.

The entire thing is focused on the man's needs and the man's feelings, about staking his claim and asserting himself.

Article is spot on and to be honest when listening to the programme it feels even worse than described.

@eatfigs an app telling men how to learn to be even more entitled than they already feel. Quelle surprise.

Sometimes I do feel like Alice falling down the rabbithole. I think it's worth stating in plain English what's happening here with a made up example.

Peter is male and sexually attracted only to women. Peter is therefore a heterosexual man.

Jane is female and sexually attracted only to women, not men. Jane is therefore a lesbian.

Peter begins to identify as trans. Peter is still only attracted to women. Instead of trying to find a heterosexual woman who will accept a trans-identified male as a partner, or another trans-identified male, Peter decides that he is now a lesbian and targets women who are not in any way, shape or form sexually attracted to male bodies. This means that Peter believes that he is perfectly entitled to try to have a sexual relationship with Jane.

This is abhorrent. This is what lesbians have had to endure for centuries - males refusing to accept that they are not interested, males refusing to leave them alone.

Yes, entirely about what you feel, what you want, how you can be supported. Not a single word about how someone else might feel.

It's setting them up to fail, and to feel that the failure is unjustified (and therefore somebody else's fault).

With, I note, a little added data mining about local lesbian organisations

That is hideously rapey.

Where are all the aps and advice for trans identified women in how to work their way into the gay community? (Equally wrong but I bet they just don't exist. Women don't have that entitlement and men wouldn't allow it).

Missing question: Communities are about giving as well as taking. What do you think you might contribute to a community that accepts you?

These fears are valid, especially in a world where trans identities are often misunderstood or marginalised. However, by aligning yourself with communities that reflect your values, you can find spaces where your identity is not just accepted, but celebrated.

Why the fuck do identities have to be celebrated? Nobody celebrates women for being women so this is just another way to show how nobody believes TWAW as they wouldn't be making such a big deal if they truly believed TW to be the same as women.

Another one: why do you think the lesbian community would benefit from your penis?

" identify a few kinds of online lesbian groups or organizations that could meet your needs"
If they are the kind of lesbian groups or organizations that meet the needs of men, they are not the kind of lesbian groups or organizations that meet the needs of lesbians😡

I wish I had named the group in the thread title. And even spelt out what this is about.

Unfortunately not everyone with know what the "cotton ceiling" means.

I think many people is made aware would be horrified.

And as many have posted, the whole emphasis of what these individual men want.

No reference of acknowledgement that lesbians just may (hard as such self engrossed males would find it) not be in any way interested. In fact may even be disgusted.

Cant bring myself to re-read but wonder how it stands up to new guidelines about sex by deception.

My thoughts exactly.

Genuine(ish) question: how many trans-identifying lesbians are fully accepting of other trans-identifying males as lesbians such that they themselves are happy to be in relationships with them as lesbians together? What are the stats on this? I have a sneaky suspicion transwomen lesbians typically prefer female lesbians.

I'm sure they do. They want what they call validation of their identity, and what better way to confirm to the whole world 'I am a woman' than being able to say 'and see, my partner is a lesbian who's only ever dated other women, she's now with me, so obviously I'm a woman!'

What this ignores, of course, is that:

• Male violence and aggression is a big reason why women tend to do what men want.
• Women and girls are trained from childhood to be kind and nice and put others first at the expense of their own needs and wants.
• Many lesbians have been told or have told themselves that the way they are is unnatural and wrong, and/or maybe they just haven't met the right man yet.
• Women who try to maintain their boundaries and set up or open women-only spaces and services for lesbians, breastfeeding mothers, survivors of sexual abuse etc have been told they are bigots and no better than racists by treating 'cis' women as somehow superior to trans women. Lucdicrous as these claims are, they have led to women losing jobs, sporting opportunities, friendships, much needed psychological support, even medical treatment.

And so here we are, unable to guarantee privacy and safety for women and girls in places and at times when they are particularly vulnerable by guaranteeing that there will be no males there. Lesbians are one of the groups that need this guarantee most of all. I am quite certain that gay men are not experiencing these problems from trans-identified females. Telling.

I've seen it said that it's OK for transwomen to not want to have relationships with other transwomen as it can be triggering for them. Lesbians have to learn to cope with a partner having a penis but transbians don't.

This falls under the general rule of everyone must accept that transwomen are women except in situations where being treated as a man would give an advantage. Being allowed to be in women's changing rooms benefits transwomen so that's good. Having your opinion ignored doesn't benefit transwomen so that's a situation where they should be treated as a man. This means treating them like they are a man but still pretending that they are a woman.

It's so horribly predictable - man is hetro so wants sex with women, man decides he's a woman but still wants sex with women. Nowhere on their advice is there anything about the lesbians having a say, about women having a right to chose their sexual partners.
Maybe, just maybe, if the transwomen took the time to see women as people, rather than some sort of window dressing in their fantasies, they might get accepted a lot more