Pronoun policing in hobby groups

[MissScarletInTheBallroom]

I'm in a Facebook group for embroiderers. I don't do much myself (turns out it's harder than it looks!) but I like seeing other people's creations.

Anyway, the gender wars are raging.

Every so often someone posts a political pattern they've stitched, usually something to do with trans rights, and the comments are an even split between allies cheering them on and other people asking to keep the discussion related to embroidery and away from politics.

This morning someone posted a general message, not related to an embroidery they had done, calling others out for starting posts with, "Hey ladies!" or similar, saying that not everyone in the group is a woman, and signing off "from this enby".

The comments were the usual shit show that I have come to expect, with half the commenters saying, "stop ramming your special identity down our throats, we don't care" and the other half bemoaning the transphobia in the group.

But what I noticed was that several people posted to thank the person who had posted the comment and saying that they were also not women, and every single one of them was either a female person who identified as non binary, or a trans man. I did not spot one single natal male in the group.

It struck me as odd to pipe up and say, "Hey, thank you, there are men in this group too!" if the only men in the group are female.

I want to say that embroidery clearly is a very gendered activity, but weirdly it looks like more of a sexed activity, if the only people doing it are female, but identify as a range of different genders.

Anyway, that's my random thought for the day.

Indeed, lesbianism would seem like a good call, but creepy guys calling themselves transbians pursue you even there it seems!

My post was a bit unclear. I meant in addition it would be a way to avoid men demanding horrible porny things. I wasn’t suggesting lesbians weren’t properly female they most certainly are.

If only I had the ability (and patience) to knit or crotchet, a green, white and purple pussy hat would be a great thing to wear for voting. And it's in February, so it's likely to be cold enough to wear a hat.

Also share your conundrum, just don't know who to vote for.

Not crafts but words... I like word games, and I play Scrabble Go online, and another game called WordRoll, both good fun. When I first started I would play with anybody who offered me a game and very quickly found out that any bloke who did so really was only interested in the 'chat' function and wanted to chat me up. I am 74 and that's reasonably obvious from my picture. It got very wearying, especially when none of these guys even gave you a good game, so I learned to block anybody who tries the chat-up routine. I now play Scrabble with a nice group of four women, two of whom I know personally (and they're in the UK so that's a nice way of staying in touch for me), and with anybody on WordRoll that doesn't try to chat me up.

I don't think I'd be able to relax in a group like that. Say the wrong thing and they might report you to the police for thought-crime.

I've seen lots of people being pulled up for saying Hi guys and told not to use gendered language in hobby groups.

If we are thinking of the same site, the site owner (administrator) mentioned using funds for his medication as it seems he's less of an enby and more of a would be 'woman'.

I’m on hat very same FB group. I left because of the lecture from that non binary poster telling us all how to address everyone. They’re so bloody fragile even a hey guys had to be endlessly dissected and discussed and I just couldn’t be arsed anymore.

You might find many of the more vitriolic posters are actually bots and not real people

‘Hi Ladies’ as an opener has always irritated me. Especially as people use it on all the things they think are exclusively female pursuits such as cooking, craft and parenting. Even if Mike or Tom have posted about the school play an hour earlier, we still get ‘Hello Ladies, can everyone make something for the bake sale’ on the parent chat. Have you checked that the group doesn’t include anything actual men? It certainly never occurs to some of the mums in my daughter’s class.

Some of the most successful anti-women activists from the UK are very discreet, under-the-radar campaigners, such as Stephen Whittle and James Morton. I believe Morton, for example, was the one who successfully pushed the policy where men were to be placed in women’s prisons in Scotland and Whittle is one of the two main players in bringing about the GRA. I cannot see that anyone would do those things without despising women.

It is cultural. In Brittany, embroidery is traditionally a man's craft.

My Dad was in a TB sanatorium for over 2 years from age 18. I have a tablecloth and place mat he made.

Interesting. My grouchiness was partly based on observing the commitment to a misogynist world view of a young person known to me, also of the spiteful nihilism of those crickets children - sad to learn it's more widespread.

The ultimate Mean Girl power trip, grow whiskers, call yourself Dick.

or whatever

It depends on the individual obviously, but I know a number of trans men/nb female people and they can be quite sneery about women. In this case, we're talking a bit older, 30s and up.
One person I know quite well through a hobby group and it's very obvious that she doesn't want to be a woman because she sees women as inferior.

It depends on the individual obviously, but I know a number of trans men/nb female people and they can be quite sneery about women. In this case, we're talking a bit older, 30s and up.
One person I know quite well through a hobby group and it's very obvious that she doesn't want to be a woman because she sees women as inferior.

In my experience it's these types of women who deliberately fuck up "women's" groups by insisting on being included and then bullying people who refer to sex or use sex based language.

Probably missing the point by a country mile, but "Hey Guys" when addressing a mixed sex group is (to me) an Americanism. When I grew up in merrie olde Engerlande, it would have been only intended for groups of men.

Then we started seeing US TV - "Happy Days ?" certainly by "Friends" it was "Hey guys !" as a character walked into a mixed company gathering.

Because the beauty of language is that it adapts to the ages 😀, I now take "Hey Guys" to be a familiar greeting to all present irrespective of where peoples dangly bits are, or more importantly where they think they should be.

DMs life passion was dress making, cross stitch, knitting, crochet, embroidery, macrame, lace making. You name it, she'd make it. Boxes rammed full of Simplicity patterns, and me totally not understanding what the point of "knitradar" was. And a happy grandchild with a hand made Harry Potter scarf that no one else had.

ohhhh what a good idea - I found my Pussy hat from last time, the other day, and i really like the idea of a hat with cat ears, and wouldn't mind doing that again. I'm going to a few demos next month so if i get it done in time (the last one took a couple of hours) i can wear it to them also

(I also don't know who to vote for. Right now - i just want to nuke everything from orbit, it's the only way to be sure)

I'm confused. I have no truck with gender, it's just a load of stereotype shit.

But. Whenever i complain about being in a group that is addressed as "hey guys" - especially when i am in a single sex group with other women - i get told "don't be such a killjoy, it is a totally sex/gender-neutral term" and that i must/should accept being referred to as a "guy". (I don't care but it does give some people pause for thought). My follow up is usually to say something like "oh i was out with a guy last week, shopping for bras, neither of us found one to fit that we liked" and then reveal that the guy i was shopping with is a woman, always has been a woman etc etc. Then i get odd looks, comments etc, and told I'm being provocative.

eh?

But. Whenever i complain about being in a group that is addressed as "hey guys" - especially when i am in a single sex group with other women - i get told "don't be such a killjoy, it is a totally sex/gender-neutral term" and that i must/should accept being referred to as a "guy". (I don't care but it does give some people pause for thought). My follow up is usually to say something like "oh i was out with a guy last week, shopping for bras, neither of us found one to fit that we liked" and then reveal that the guy i was shopping with is a woman, always has been a woman etc etc. Then i get odd looks, comments etc, and told I'm being provocative.

I bet they wouldn't say it if an MTF was present. It's generally only women who get called precious.

I have a sneaking suspicion that were I to be foolish enough to address a large enough group of people with "Hi All", there would be some fucknugget who would upset that I didn't say "Hi All and fucknuggets".

I admit that if you aren't leading a cure for cancer, or haven't made countless peoples lives better then maybe - just maybe - all you have to offer the world is your pronouns.

Myself, I aspire to more.

Today I am mainly grumpy.

In my small town Ireland all-girls convent school our customary usage when addressing a general classroom group was 'lads!'.

Indeed this essay says that plural 'lads' in that sense is gender- (or sex-) neutral, whereas the singular 'lad' is not only male only, but may also be a slang term for a penis.

www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2025/0106/1489239-ireland-greetings-language-unique-properties/

A lad got his lad out, the lads were horrified (because they were all women).

that's something i've known about for years, and since it really has been the case for ever, then i can accept it from Irish people (even addressed to a group i'm in) because I'm not Irish I'm not about to fight about it, even though i don't love it.

But I am English, and a "guy" is a man. And so i will pushback (or be an arse about it as described above to make a point). I particularly don't like it when I'm out for lunch with my elderly mum (we are both grey haired) and the waiter says "hi guys". There is NOTHING wrong with "hello, would you like a menu?"

I knew of loads of knitting/sewing men. I've heard of knitting groups in schools being really successful with boys. It's interesting because my grandfather's generation I think would've seen being unable to sew as a sign of immaturity rather than femininity.

Perhaps it's more that as sewing and knitting etc has become a 'nice to have' rather than 'necessary to have' skills that they're considered to be more female coded because as we know if a skill is something women do as a fairly normal thing, when a man does it it's automatically elevated. Thus women knitting etc is a dull, if frivolous craft pastime, whereas if men do it, it's important and possibly art.