Pronoun policing in hobby groups

[MissScarletInTheBallroom]

I'm in a Facebook group for embroiderers. I don't do much myself (turns out it's harder than it looks!) but I like seeing other people's creations.

Anyway, the gender wars are raging.

Every so often someone posts a political pattern they've stitched, usually something to do with trans rights, and the comments are an even split between allies cheering them on and other people asking to keep the discussion related to embroidery and away from politics.

This morning someone posted a general message, not related to an embroidery they had done, calling others out for starting posts with, "Hey ladies!" or similar, saying that not everyone in the group is a woman, and signing off "from this enby".

The comments were the usual shit show that I have come to expect, with half the commenters saying, "stop ramming your special identity down our throats, we don't care" and the other half bemoaning the transphobia in the group.

But what I noticed was that several people posted to thank the person who had posted the comment and saying that they were also not women, and every single one of them was either a female person who identified as non binary, or a trans man. I did not spot one single natal male in the group.

It struck me as odd to pipe up and say, "Hey, thank you, there are men in this group too!" if the only men in the group are female.

I want to say that embroidery clearly is a very gendered activity, but weirdly it looks like more of a sexed activity, if the only people doing it are female, but identify as a range of different genders.

Anyway, that's my random thought for the day.

Interesting!

And depressing how many women want to be speshul not women.

Re embroidery being a sexed hobby - there's a cross-stitch magazine I buy sometimes that has a regular column by A Man. I seem to remember at one point there was a fair emphasis on "the man who stitches". Surprise! Not a man.

The more I think about it, the more bloody offensive I find female enbys. Like they think the rest of us are just so happy v with sexism and objectification 🙄

It's like someone who comes from the same home town as you denying it and belittling it and pretending they're from somewhere else because 'oh no dahling I'm not from that shit hole!' . Yes, you are.

I follow a Dutch guy on you tube who has a great knitting channel.

Definitely a bloke. Gives out gay vibes!

I'm actually wondering whether it has to do with hand span.

I imagine men can knit more easily than they can embroider with small needles.

Maybe!

I think the most irritating thing is the policing of language whenever anything like this comes up. Most people don’t care whether someone starts with ‘hey ladies’ or ‘hey guys’ it’s the other stuff they are writing about/showing off that’s of interest. It’s like that train announcement when a passenger complained that using ladies and gentlemen didn’t include the they/thems’.

Servicemen wounded in the First World War were taught embroidery whist recovering. My own grandfather was one of them - he embroidered the badges of his own and his brother's cavalry regiments.

It was standard occupational therapy for British and Commonwealth troops. It evidently never occurred to the authorities that they wouldn't be able to do it.

There were quite a few comments to the effect that nobody is complaining when anyone says "hi guys". It's just being called a woman even if you are one that some people find offensive. It's the "male as default/desirable" again.

It struck me as odd to pipe up and say, "Hey, thank you, there are men in this group too!" if the only men in the group are female.

It's very common that "trans men" and women who identify as "non binary" are the ones who destabilise these groups, in my experience.

It’s like that train announcement when a passenger complained that using ladies and gentlemen didn’t include the they/thems’.

That was Aimee Challenor. Cue weeks of TFL virtue signalling that they'd changed it.

Though men historically have done embroidery, as a profession. I also find it depressing how many women don't want to be women. I think it has something to do with the objectificationa and commodification of our bodies.

It is almost as if they find themselves drawn to stereotypical womanly/girly things but cannot cope with the fact.

My grandmother (and others of her generation) confronted with that sort of thing would have sighed ostentatiously, remarked 'tis pity about you' and moved on, leaving the young person feeling rather silly.

'Woman' is assumed to be an oppressed group that is subjugated and treated as inferior - and who wants to be one of those. ( other than cross dressing men with a kink for submission)

I'm on a sewing group where it is explicity banned to start a post with "hey guys" because apparantly its discriminatory.

There's also another sewing group (with more than 100k members) where a couple of years ago, someone posted about adjusting a pattern for their trans relative (which I thought was a fair enough request) but someone else took offence and all hell broke loose. Then the people who requested that everything stick to just sewing conversations were told they were "phobic" and kicked out of the group. As this all happened late at night, there were no admins involved till the morning. The result is that literally three years later, this sewing company still has a reputation for being "dumpster fire" because they apparantly didnt step in early enough to stop wide ranging abuse.

Sewing groups are utterly mad.

The knitting sphere is well known for this kind of thing:

www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/06/905472/ravelry-ban-on-pro-trump-patterns-unraveled-the-online-knitting-world-censorship-free/amp/

My hobby groups (see UN!) have dealt with similar issues by insisting that discussion be related to the work itself. It's not simply a gender issue: any other fibre people may remember the Ravelry meltdown over Trump patterns. I could think of half a dozen other kerfuffles.

In fibre there is a bit of a tendency to be "ooh, male knitter/crocheter!" and it is easier for them to get famous quickly.

Bet no one will be sharing pussy hat knitting patterns this time around!

X posted with you @knitnerd90

Oooh there's a thought! That would put the pussycat amongst the pigeons - let's start the campaign now

Interesting observations.

I really enjoy knitting, embroidery, crochet and sewing. People pushing an agenda in crafting groups is very off putting.

I’m very selective with social media groups related to these hobbies.
I just leave groups when people start insisting on everyone complying with their gender identity beliefs and pulling up people on inoffensive language used.

it must be exhausting for people who hold certain gender beliefs to have it at the forefront of their life all the time. I know I’m exhausted hearing about it.

I know a few heterosexual men who embroider and crochet but do not have the inclination or time to be active on social media with their hobby.

I read WWII prisoners of war did embroider letters home.

I remember the controversy around Diversknitty and purity spirals a few years ago.

Well I'm "only" 20 but it shows how "old school" I am. When you said not all the ppl in the group are women, I automatically thought "oh good, there are some men doing it". My mind didn't go to non-binary or trans....

remembering that classic line from a show - quite comfortable with my sexuality, just don’t want to be slapped around the head by someone else’s.