The parallel between PIE and the trans rights movement

[RoyalCorgi]

Some of us on this board have been making this point for a long time. Good to see it, finally, in a mainstream publication. Well done, Christian Wolmar.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-shocking-truth-about-the-paedophile-information-exchange/

archive version: https://archive.is/1RcSV

The paedophile campaigners camped in on a legitimate fight by gay activists to lower the age of consent. PIE couched its language in libertarian terms about children’s right to sexual expression. They co-opted eminent psychologists to support their case. Similarly, today, the demands of trans people for recognition of their status and action to counter discrimination are obviously perfectly reasonable. However, the idea that ‘trans rights’ then become the right of men who have not undergone any surgery or drug treatment to call themselves ‘women’ and assume that they have the right to enter women-only spaces is not legitimate. Yet anyone even suggesting that or simply calling for a debate on the issue immediately faces accusations of transphobia.

Readable, albeit distressing, piece. It's good to see such a decent summary.

I originally became worried about gender ideology when I came across feminists talking about the Cotton Ceiling. Trans identifying males were claiming the right to be accepted as lesbians on the basis that they were women and to reject them was transphobic.

I was immediately revolted. I'm no expert on lesbians but the one thing everyone knows is that lesbians don't do dick.

The homophobia of gender ideology was the first thing I really noticed about it.

Add in the loss of women only spaces, from changing rooms to sports, the obvious fetishists among the MfFs and gender ideology looks very damaging. It's by no means a benign movement.

I'm old enough to remember PIE and the analogies ring true.

I don't think it's a coincidence that a core tenet of this new gender ideology movement is that children have the ability to consent to life altering interventions and procedures. Its all about making it accepted that children are able to decide these things, and we all know what the next step will be once that has been normalized.

I dont think this article is that good. And as said on the other thread about the radio programme, PIE was able to suceed because the mainstream, ie male dominated media just accepted sexuality to be something that should exist to suit men.

And again as said on the other thread, society as a whole was also shockingly relaxed about school girls being in sexual relationships.

And, if it is worth asking, given that both PIE and the start of what was to become Trans activism, is why did the idea of 4 year olds being sexually available to adults, not alarm the media and establishment.

Also, dislike the inference that PIE is about homosexuality.

I dont know if there are figures but suspect at least as many young girls, if not more, have been sexually abused by an adult male.

However, I did like the anecdote about Release, and pleased to learn they didn't accept them once knowing what their mission was.

This is sly gaslighting. It's so subtle that I would probably have missed it a few years ago, or not been able to pinpoint what bothered me about it.

Similarly, today, the demands of trans people for recognition of their status and action to counter discrimination are obviously perfectly reasonable.

Sounds reasonable, sort of. Not sure why their status should be recognised, why we should have to pretend they are something they are not.

And then the writer goes on to say:

However, the idea that ‘trans rights’ then become the right of men who have not undergone any surgery or drug treatment to call themselves ‘women’ and assume that they have the right to enter women-only spaces is not legitimate.

Which to me implies they think that men who have had body-modification via surgery or drug treatment should have the right to call themselves women and enter women-only spaces.

How is this any different to accepting that, while adult men should not have sex with children, sex between two under-age young people is acceptable. And then going on to say that adult men who identify as 14yo should have their identities respected, but if they don't get body mods to look more juvenile then it's inappropriate for them to have sex with other 14yos.

I should even have to say this, but, I am not implying any connection between transgenderism and paedophilia. I am pointing out that out the illogicality of pandering to one impossible claim but not to another, equally impossible claim.

"Similarly, today, the demands of trans people for recognition of their status and action to counter discrimination are obviously perfectly reasonable."

I read this as recognising their status as 'trans', meaning someone who has a trans identity, as opposed to demands for validating their identity as being legitimate.

That's another way forced teaming works: fuzzy language that can be interpreted in different ways.

Regarding the PIE podcast, did the other thread disappear? I can't find it. Someone said on there that all episodes are available but I can only see the first one. Could it be because Im not in the UK? I wanted to ask about a link

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5246429-5246429-bbc-radio-4-series-this-week-about-pie-in-dark-corners

The idea of a "sex change", ie, someone who has surgery and lives as the opposite sex, isn't recent - they were happening in the 1970s and I think until recently the attitude was that it was OK. Hence, I think, the author making this affirmation of trans rights.

The difference is that back then only a handful of people had sex changes so there weren't any societal issues. Also, back then, the context in which they happened was that sex was understood as rooted in biology, not the pick 'n mix performative thing it is now. You 'became' male or female and that was it.

How do you know who has had surgery? One of the big issues is that most women do not want male bodied people in our spaces, with or without the penis. I have a late 60s transwomen in my immediate community who is harmless, I know has had the op (because they have told people) yet look exactly like a bloke in a dress. No problem with a bloke in a dress, but I do not think they should be in women's spaces as it is hugely triggering to women