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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another one for the file: "Belfast woman cleared of battering elderly mum in row over table salt"

40 replies

Genesis1v27 · 12/01/2025 12:12

The story has very unpleasant details. It's hard to believe that this person was aquitted.

https://m.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/belfast-woman-cleared-of-battering-elderly-mum-in-row-over-table-salt/a931036709.html

OP posts:
SunnieShine · 12/01/2025 12:17

A man then.

yetanotherusernameAgain · 12/01/2025 12:23

"she was acquitted of both charges due to issues around the evidence."

"The court heard no statement of complaint was made by the defendant’s mother, but the prosecution proceeded with the body-worn footage obtained by police who attended the incident."

The call to police was made by a concerned neighbour, not the victim. The victim didn't make a complaint about the incident, possibly didn't even make a statement other than what was recorded on bodycam. And didn't attend court to give evidence - in fact wrote a letter in support of the defendant.

Interesting use of pronouns though: article uses "she" (in line with press/court usage rules) but uses "he" when quoting the mother's comments from the bodycam recording.

spannasaurus · 12/01/2025 12:29

How the hell is it appropriate to interrupt a victim to bring up pronouns

Another one for the file: "Belfast woman cleared of battering elderly mum in row over table salt"
IllustratedDictionaryOfTheDoldrums · 12/01/2025 12:33

spannasaurus · 12/01/2025 12:29

How the hell is it appropriate to interrupt a victim to bring up pronouns

I was about to quote that. Absolutely shocking. And extraordinary that there was no conviction. It was caught on the police body camera, on top of the neighbour reporting it.

yetanotherusernameAgain · 12/01/2025 12:49

How the hell is it appropriate to interrupt a victim to bring up pronouns

Perhaps to clarify they were talking about the same person?

And the incident itself wasn't caught on camera, just the victim's description of it.

If a victim doesn't cooperate with a prosecution, there's no other witness to the incident, and no strong proof that injuries occurred at the hands of the alleged assailant (eg bruising from a fall - did they trip or were they pushed?) then it's not so surprising that the case failed.

However it's good that the police pursued it without the victim's cooperation. That didn't used to be the case in domestic violence incidents.

BrokenHipster · 12/01/2025 12:53

yetanotherusernameAgain · 12/01/2025 12:49

How the hell is it appropriate to interrupt a victim to bring up pronouns

Perhaps to clarify they were talking about the same person?

And the incident itself wasn't caught on camera, just the victim's description of it.

If a victim doesn't cooperate with a prosecution, there's no other witness to the incident, and no strong proof that injuries occurred at the hands of the alleged assailant (eg bruising from a fall - did they trip or were they pushed?) then it's not so surprising that the case failed.

However it's good that the police pursued it without the victim's cooperation. That didn't used to be the case in domestic violence incidents.

Exactly. It's relevant at that time.officer needs to be be clear who they are talking about and how.

lcakethereforeIam · 12/01/2025 12:56

I hope his mum's okay. She seems to have distanced herself from him. I hope she's got support.

spannasaurus · 12/01/2025 12:59

If the police were trying to clarify that they were talking about the same person they would ask who the mother was referring to not say he asked to be called she.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/01/2025 12:59

BrokenHipster · 12/01/2025 12:53

Exactly. It's relevant at that time.officer needs to be be clear who they are talking about and how.

Except the officer isn't clarifying who they're discussing. They say "He's asked me to call him she" and the Mum responded "yes"

Pp are right - it was an unnecessary interjection about pronouns - nothing to do with confirming who the man was.

Viviennemary · 12/01/2025 13:00

There doesn't seem to be proof that the son/daughter inflicted the injuries. The mother does sound like she is suffering from dementia.

spannasaurus · 12/01/2025 13:01

Viviennemary · 12/01/2025 13:00

There doesn't seem to be proof that the son/daughter inflicted the injuries. The mother does sound like she is suffering from dementia.

What from the report makes it sound like the mother had dementia

SamuelDJackson · 12/01/2025 13:08

Dementia?!
The mother sounds to have a better hold on reality than her son from the description of the incident in that article

ZeldaFighter · 12/01/2025 13:09

I think it's open and shut which I guess is why the police sent it to court. Total failure of the judge to protect an elderly female victim of DA. I hope it's appealed.

Viviennemary · 12/01/2025 13:13

spannasaurus · 12/01/2025 13:01

What from the report makes it sound like the mother had dementia

The mother in the street in her underwear shouting.

spannasaurus · 12/01/2025 13:14

Viviennemary · 12/01/2025 13:13

The mother in the street in her underwear shouting.

Escaping from her violent son

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 12/01/2025 13:20

@Genesis1v27 it is the same person. it is a man.

SunnieShine · 12/01/2025 13:21

BrokenHipster · 12/01/2025 12:53

Exactly. It's relevant at that time.officer needs to be be clear who they are talking about and how.

Then, since they are talking about a man, they both need to say "he".

spannasaurus · 12/01/2025 13:23

If a man is kicking and punching you, grabbing you by the throat trying to choke you does running outside in your underwear and shouting indicate
a. Dementia or
b. sensible actions to escape from danger

myplace · 12/01/2025 13:29

Vulnerable, elderly woman who is lying down upstairs feeling ill.
Attacked by son, left with bruised arms, describes his daily rages and accusations.
Reported by neighbour.

Dismissed because she is unable to give an accurate timeline of being dragged from her bed and attacked.

kiterunning · 12/01/2025 14:32

How terrible to be so frightened of your son

SinnerBoy · 12/01/2025 14:42

Viviennemary · Today 13:13

The mother in the street in her underwear shouting.

Beaten to it by spannasaurus, but she was in bed when he attacked her. My take would be that in her haste to escape a vicious assault by her son, she was unable to dress properly, before leaving her house.

As opposed to her having dementia.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 12/01/2025 15:12

The poor mother, what a terrible life she's been leading, there's no mention of a father, she seems to have been struggling with this all on her own.

As for District Judge Ann Marshall, I have no words for her. 🤬

MarieDeGournay · 12/01/2025 15:28

The mother's description of what happened sounds coherent e.g.
“He’s been drinking and had me by the throat in the hallway,” she tells officers, adding: “I managed to get away from him but it’s like a light switch, one minute everything is OK and the next it’s really bad.”

And as far as the Judge is concerned, she believed there wasn't enough clear evidence:

“She struggles to give a clear and consistent account of what happened and when. I was also not able to get a clear account of how her injuries were sustained".

And the mother appears not to have cooperated with the process

“There was no statement made in the case, she is not here to give evidence, and she sent a letter to the court in support of the defendant.
“Given the issues with evidence in the case I cannot be safe in admitting it.”

So I wouldn't condemn the Judge who may have been obliged to come to that conclusion, and sometimes what is legally correct is infuriating, but that's not necessarily the Judge's fault.

The only good news is that 'himself' has had no contact with his mother since, and long may that last! She is obviously very unwell and hopefully she will get appropriate support and care now that people know what he's been putting her through.
That said, he's still her son, and the whole awful situation must be heart-breaking for her.

lcakethereforeIam · 12/01/2025 15:53

His authentic self sounds like every other drunken abusive man. He seems to have shown more concern about his pronouns when the coppers showed up than about his mother. Enough presence of mind and self-control to stop the police from misgendering him but not to stop himself from assaulting his own mum.

RocketPanda · 12/01/2025 17:05

His poor mother, son to mother violence is on the rise. Victims of domestic abuse are often reluctant to give statements and I'd assume it's a high percentage when it's your child being violent.