Australian Family Court Allows Cross Sex Hormones for Teen

[NotYourCisterinAus]

https://archive.is/y7tNF

Excuse me while I bang my head against the wall in frustration.

Also feels isolated, and lacking in culture but that’s a different discussion.

@Sasskitty That’s a matter of opinion. And rude. What type of culture? Arts and theatre? Royalty? High society and nobility? Fuck that shit. Apart from royalty. They’re our royals too. Very strange seeing Charles on our coins now. BTW, we like being an isolated country. Helps to keep diseases and pests out.

It is a sort of retrograde 'anti colonialist' thing - and certainly if he's from a certain strand on the political spectrum.

16 is just too young........and anyone 'treating' such a young person with drugs, surgery or subtances which block natural development - in order to treat a mental health issue - is grossly irresponsible.

Doctors will absolutely not perform a hysterectomy on a woman under the age of 35 - unless for a very real medical issue Unless, it seems, they jump on the trans bandwagon, in which case different rules seem to apply. This double standard was one of the issues that Cass highlighted. That gender 'mdecine' is not being held to the same standards or being judged or assessed using the same rigorous procedures as other branches of medicine routinely are.

@Shortshriftandlethal a different poster misrepresented a general comment to imply I agreed with surgery at 16.

I don’t and never said I did. I would like it to be at least 21 or to turn the age 25 in Scottish Government’s sentencing guidelines in to the age you can consent.

I agree the hypocrisy around women needing a hysterectomy is breathtaking. I also agree we need clear rules around gender medicine.

JessaWoo · Yesterday 23:03

Um. Australia isn't occupied by the Taliban.

Well, quite.

Unfortunately, it's the Traniban who are enforcing their beliefs on the Australian public, particularly towards women and more so lesbians.

I'm really struggling to understand how someone's mental health might be improved by having medical treatment which results in things like infertility, vaginal atrophy and osteoporosis. Surely going through the menopause as a teenager isn't going to help their mental health.

And if, like Keira Bell, Chloe Cole and an ever-growing list of detransitioners, they later decide this has all been a mistake, is their mental health likely to be better than if they had never had this treatment?

How does cosmetic treatment with a huge list of negative physical effects help anyone's mental health?

How do you think this treatment helps mental health?

The taliban ref was tasteless and not worth referring to, specifically.

The way trans activists behave, and the way Australia cow tows to them is horrendous. Australia in fact made it law (following TvG) that women don’t exist in their own right. After all if any man can call himself a woman legally, there’s no difference is there. Talk about a misogynistic and sexist society. I hope they Do get their own version of the Cass report, then some of this grot might be reversed.

And this is a good example of why I am against 'altruistic' surrogacy.

Too much potential for coercive behaviour of all kinds.

I would ethically be refusing to enable this 'pact', if I were a doctor for this reason.

Mental heath is complicated and often incorrectly trivialised. It is not something that can be ascertained from an article about a case and I am not going to resort to second guessing.

I don’t disagree that the side effects of PB, cross sex hormones etc. are awful. There is however always a balance between physical and mental side effects. To make that judgement you need to have all the facts which neither of us have.

Your position is never, mine is for a very very few people it might be right. We are both entitled to our view.

@OldCrone How does cosmetic treatment with a huge list of negative physical effects help anyone's mental health?

I have already been very clear I do not support unnecessary cosmetic surgery and I consider doctors who repeatedly operate on people e.g Katie Price, Jocelyn Wildenstein etc. are potentially negligent.

There is cosmetic surgery that can help mental health e.g. burn victims, scars etc.

Do you believe that people can be literally born in the wrong body? This seems to me to be the only way one could rationalise harming a physically healthy body in this way.

Burn victims and people with scars have damaged bodies. The surgery is to try to make their body as far as possible more like it was before the damage occurred.

This is completely different from someone with a physically healthy body having cosmetic surgery which inflicts damage on their body.

No.

The Cass review recognises gender dysphoria and that PB may be right for a few.

Do you disagree agree with the Cass Review?

I don't agree that any children should be given puberty blockers because they want to be the opposite sex.

Gender dysphoria appears to be about being uncomfortable about regressive gender stereotypes. I don't believe medication is ever the right treatment for children who are uncomfortable about the expectations based on them because of their sex.

Back in the 70s when I was a teenager, the (feminist) answer to this was that girls could do anything that boys could do (apart from those things that require a male reproductive system). Why can't we go back to that sort of attitude instead of medicating girls who think they have to be boys in order to do those things?

I agree so why do we allow anyone to have lip fillers, Botox, cosmetic surgery?

Do we allow children to have those things?

Do those things cause infertility, vaginal atrophy or osteoporosis? Or have other serious negative effects?

Could a 16-year-old go to court to get a judge to declare that they should have those things?

Are people saying we should let children have those things otherwise they might go to unregulated private clinics for them or travel overseas?

Are people saying that we should give these things to children or they'll kill themselves?

I agree but we are where we are and sadly you can’t turn the clock back. PB and cross sex hormones can be bought on the Internet.

I would rather this 16 year old had a judge decide and them have all the medical support, including counselling than a well meaning parent buy them off the internet.

Why would a well meaning parent by harmful illegal drugs for their children off the internet?

I’ve already clarified several times that no 16 year old should be having surgery. My preference is never, but not before 25.

I was referring to hormone treatment.

I think I mistakenly said 'cosmetic surgery' in an earlier post when I meant 'cosmetic treatment', which is what the hormone treatment is.

Your position is absolutist mine is pragmatic. We are both entitled to our views.

Yes, I'm quite absolutist when it comes to people with dangerous ideologies who want to harm children. I'm not going to apologise for that.

I wouldn’t expect you to.
This is a debate and we are both entitled to our views.

I would rather this 16 year old had a judge decide and them have all the medical support, including counselling than a well meaning parent buy them off the internet.

I would rather a judge display a modicum of professional curiosity and look into the facts of the matter, rather than declare a four year long, meticulous study a political hatchet job.

There’s a sliding scale of what is and what is not permitted. This is because there is no rigid boundary between what is acceptable and what is not, determined by common sense and custom. People are presumed to have free will and a reasonable degree of autonomy when it comes to their bodies. So lip fillers are OK, but if you decided you might look better by having your lips removed entirely, you would be probably be discouraged from doing so (and any medical professional would probably be in trouble for facilitating it).
Jumping out of a plane with a parachute on is considered reasonable, despite the potential risks, but jumping out without one is generally not allowed. Tattoos are allowed, but with age restrictions.
What is and what is not allowed can change over time. Once it became clear how damaging smoking is, it was banned. Once it became clear that contraceptive medication was relatively harmless, and the benefits outweighed the risks (for most women), it was prescribed more widely.
Many people now call for aesthetic treatments and surgery to be more tightly regulated, and I agree. But saying that because someone can have Botox means that they can be given puberty blockers/cross sex hormones - which you imply - is unreasonable and wrong. They are not in any way comparable.