Chief Scout says some good stuff then misses safeguarding

[RedToothBrush]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyn1wp0dl4o

He also rejected the idea that Scouts has "gone woke". Some have criticised the organisation for offering an activity that can be used by groups to teach children about preferred pronouns. Scouts say their groups are welcome to all youngsters.

"Scouting reflects society," said Dwayne. "If there's a young person who says, 'I don't know if I am comfortable calling myself a boy or a girl' - what does it matter?

Well it matters quite a lot you bloody dimwit.

I mean these kids matter in terms of being potential victims of massive medical malpractice.

I mean these kids matter in terms of raging modern day sexism.

I mean these kids matter in terms of being human shields and victims of adults who have sexual fetishes.

But he'll yes, reduce this to a simple question about being kind and glaring fucking ignorance for an organisation which has previously has massive safeguarding fails.

I can't face palm hard enough.

The rest of what he says is bloody brilliant. And then he just fall flat on his face in terms of his blind spot - particularly when it comes to girls who are most affected by this at scout age.

Disappointed.

He said he'd never in all of his years of scouting come across a request for preferred pronouns so doesn't see that kind of stuff as as issue in the Scouts.

So that's all right then.

I agree but fortunately the whole gender identity amongst the cub age (8 to 10.5) has definitely fallen in the last 2 years. That age they seem to pick it up from school

Where did you get that stat @fabricstash?

I was nearly in tears listening to his life stories and then he throws a lovely dovey woke thing out.

I need to listen to the whole conversation again as I missed a bit of the woke bit.

It's clear he's passionate about activities outdoors, community etc which are ways to help these kids be less belly gazing. Muddy outdoors Activity certainly helps mental health and an unhealthy obsession with looks. Scouting just needs to avoid the active teaching of if the ideology.

Our local troop avoids it and focuses on disability and cultural differences for inclusion related things.

It's very short sighted to make that claim against the knowledge that scouting really impacted his outlook on life. He needs to think about the ideological messages a young person will be absorbing alongside the really good stuff.

Oh dear, that makes it even fucking worse!

DH has.

So it'd be nice to have some leadership from the actual leader on how to handle it.

This girl was actually very laid back about pronouns etc so it wasn't an issue for him in the end but he was concerned about how he handled it and whether this would leave him vulnerable to a complaint and he knows others who have said similar because they've also dealt with a similar situation.

Those volunteers would actually like to know how to protect and look after vulnerable kids without being victims of TRA witchhunts which is a real risk.

The organisation has a problem in getting volunteers as it is - previous scandals have done lasting damage to the numbers willing to help out. Fear of getting caught up in a scenario like this, puts others off.

Given that going along with pronouns is now officially recognised as potentially harmful and not a neutral act, being a fuck wit about this and failing to recognise the Cass Review isn't ok.

DH won't touch the subject full stop. I don't think any of the other leaders at the group would either. Local groups have a fair amount of control in this respect.

It's just whether you get individual kids joing who make a fuss at that level.

The problem is more if you mix with other groups at District, County and National level and there's a rainbow warrior present.

Our group is neuro-diverse central which is also interesting. It attracts people who can't sit still and the socially awkward but is exceptionally positive in its approach. I'd argue that it's the antithesis of the TRA Trainwreck in many ways.

It’s not a stat - it’s from experience as I am involved. We are seeing a decline in gender identity theory across most ages

Many years ago the Scouts / Cubs had an appalling record of paedophiles accessing children. They worked incredibly hard to develop effective safeguarding / recruitment procedures. So sad that they're throwing that away by introducing age inappropriate beliefs that children can change sex and encouraging adults desperate to be allowed to talk to children about sex change and gender identities.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/12409469/trans-scout-gabby-smith-gavin-horstead-school-cubs-porn/

That is good to hear from both of you, @fabricstash and @RedToothBrush 's dh

I have a feeling we will be hearing a lot more from Dwayne via the bbc. He's quite an individual for many key messages and issues.

He needs to get his messaging right.

Doesn't he just?!

It being the very role of chief scout!

Being ignorant is a failure to do the job well.

Apparently he is married and a father. Does he have daughters?

I wonder if he'll realise it matters when a 15-year-old trans girl wants to share a tent, unsupervised, with his daughter?

Given that you can have mixed genders share tents, and have been able to for many years - many wouldn’t see it as a big deal.

Many would say far better to have a mixed group of 6 in a larger space than individuals or pairs.

I think their head office needs looking at and the scout store. There must be employees pushing this agenda within. (The store is overwhelmed by pride badges and flags - it's indoctrination.)
However, I've always found our local Scout leaders to be very sensible and able, which is one of the reasons people go to Scouts.

Not true for our group thank goodness. Sexes have separate tents which is just as well. My son found the boys so outrageous he wouldn't camp with them again. People forget what teenaged and preteen boys can be like especially in a group especially in an environment where they aren't supervised every minute.

Isn't the king ultimately top scout? That may not be right but if so my god they need to get a grip on this.

I was a young leader back in the day and there’s no way I’d would have wanted to be the one responsible for a mixed sex group in a tent.

The Scouts need to get a handle on this. It’s traditionally been the educated middle classes who have had the time and inclination to volunteer to run the scout groups and these are exactly the sort of people walking away because of what they now see as madness and a lack of safeguarding.

There’s no reason gender should come into it. It’s sex that matters.

Both my kids are in Scouts and the local groups have no truck with gender issues. It's single sex tents all the way and strict protocols around safeguarding. Again, we have a fair number of ND scouts and the older teenagers are very protective of the younger.

Dwayne sounds like he's barely given any thought to the subject. Which would be fine if it wasn't a social contagion and safeguarding problem amongst teenagers.

Our unit does not do mixed sex tents. I don't know any that do

Having been both the leader and the teen side - larger group shared tents give far less opportunity for anything other than stupid games than single or pairs in tents.

Single tents, prime shagging opportunities.

Latest version of POR states

"Can boys and girls share accommodation? Yes they can. This is subject to the Risk Assessment of the Nights Away Permit (NAP) holder. The Nights Away Permit holder has the ultimate responsibility for the event so it will be their decision. However, this decision must take into consideration the views of the young people and the views of the parents, and give the parents the opportunity to voice any concerns they may have.
The NAP holder and/or Leader in Charge must also consider that different age groups may present different issues and this must be taken into account when accommodation is being arranged".

In my group - 4 years (squirrels) to 14years (at 14 scouts leave us and go to district) I have never had a YP ask to be called a different "Pronoun" and I have no intention going down that road (I don't ask the adults either). Every body gets called by their "jungle book name" or first name (or "how you" if I cant remember it at the time).

Politics, religion and sexual orientation is a purely personal matter. We do visit different places of worship (I always do a pre visit before taking the group). But the YP like letting off steam, lighting fires and building things, so that's what we do.

Yes, I noticed that his example of being kind was a little kid who just wanted their pronouns to be they/them and why would anyone object to that. I wish Nick Robinson had pressed him with a different example ie when a grown male volunteer says he's a woman. I would have liked to have heard him talk about that.

It happens (and females who say their are men). The general rule is an Adult Volunteer is never alone with a YP anyway, so for us its not such a big deal.

From a personal point of view this is not a question that should be left to a volunteer, or even a sports governing body, to answer. This is something that needs a definitive ruling from Government.

He doesn't know much about what is going on in the Scouts then, does he? My daughter certainly came across prefered pronouns in her unit. She has SEN, struggled with the new pronouns and was aggressively corrected. This contributed to her dropping out of the scouts. Why is gender identity more important than the protection of children with SEND?