All defendants in the Pelicot case found guilty

[Greyskybluesky]

All those names. It's horrific.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cnv35lp14z9t

What is as horrifying is that many were also accused and found guilty of having child pornography - which rather undermines their defence that they had not intended to rape.

Should have given them all 19 years then.

Please don't use the name "child pornography" it is a misnomer. It's images of child abuse.

Yes. 20 men filmed but not identified.

In order to have justice we must have lawyers who are prepared to represent the most awful of people, and do so properly by using all aspects of the law to argue their case, however unpleasant such arguments and justifications may be. The rapists are the criminals here, not their lawyers.

Like everyone I'm completely disgusted at the husband, but like pp have mentioned , the number of other men who went along with it. Or even if they didn't take part, didn't see anything wrong with the whole scenario ...? FFS

And then pretending they were duped , or that she was in agreement. It's abhorrent and an uncomfortable and horrifying uncovering of how lots of men would and do behave, if a situation presents itself and they think they can get away with it

Her statement.

No words to say how much I admire her.

https://x.com/France24_en/status/1869790147438412065

I absolutely agree all defendants, no matter how heinous the alleged offence are entitled to decent legal representation @WarmingClothesontheRadiator, my shock here is not lawyers using the defence strategy they adopted but the fact the definition of rape in French law is so poorly worded they were able to do so.

Considering the legal definition of rape in France I wonder if anyone has ever been convicted in a “straightforward” drug rape case there? In an interview with one of the French women’s rights groups in the follow-up trial reporting they said the laws were terrible and needed a complete overhaul, for example, there are no specific domestic violence crimes - cases have to be brought under everyday public assault and violence charges.

I hope the lasting legacy of Gisele’s bravery is the people now put overwhelming pressure on the government to overhaul the laws around consent.

It was something that I began to understand was a significant issue when I started reading about the young women protesting about the consent laws in universities about them. It was sandwiched in with the change of the age of consent finally after the young tween aged girl was raped in a playground but I believe the adult male rapist argued that ‘she consented’!

And around the same time the child victims of the decreased age of consent from the 70s and 80s who were preyed upon by powerful men started to speak out and be taken notice of. Finally.

The concept of consent needs an overhaul perhaps in French law. And there needs to be heavier punishments available.

It is truly horrifying. I honestly can't imagine how these men came to be so awful. I hope they all die in prison; the ages of some of them there's a good chance. What an incredible woman, and she has women the world over beside her.

While the sentences are shorter than they should be, I have little doubt that had this occurred in the UK they would have been shorter still… and they would have been let out after less than half.

Yes, I know. Why did I put inverted commas round it?

I hope they spend the rest of their miserable lives looking over their shoulders.

It's hard to believe that 20 men are that hard to identify. I'd love to know their jobs.

So gisele can't actually relax at all because justice still hasn't been done!

What do you mean?

People being interviewed I've said that either everyone knows one of them, or knows someone who does.

It's unbelievably bad.

I've been posting about this on another thread -
Page 9 | Gisele Pelicot defendants described | Mumsnet
I completely agree about the duty of lawyers to defend their clients as strongly as they can. Somebody has to defend even the worst monsters, and they are trained to do their best. Without that, there would be no fair trials.

The defence barrister who said 'There is rape, and there is rape' - Guillaume De Palma - has since said that he was specifically addressing this to the judges, making the point that in French law, there has to be intent, whereas in public opinion there does not, and that he was only arguing his client's innocence on this point of law. I think this may be a case of something sounding indefensible when taken out of context, and I don't think it reflects what he personally believes.

However, the outside-the-courtroom behaviour of at least three others has been shocking: Nadia El Bouroumi who has been posting controversial things on TikTok and generally seems to enjoy 'stirring'; Émile-Henri Biscarrat spoke strongly, and I think inappropriately, in favour of retaining intent in the definition of rape immediately after sentencing, and most shockingly Christophe Bruschi jeered and insulted the protesters outside the court as his client walked free because of time served.

I think they should be held to account for what they did and said outside the courtroom.

I know that what is called by the industry 'child pornography' is child abuse. It's like treading on egg shells round here! My point was not what we call specific types of paedophilia but that these ordinary men also went in for porn about the abuse of children, upskirting, drugging their own wives (in one case), and various other sex offences. In other words, they had form and had not been picked up until now. Which means there are a lot of other men out there who are just like these men, going about their daily lives. It's entirely true that women don't know how much some men hate women. It is the oldest hatred, so old it's seen as 'normal'.