Waspi or not, Britain's old-age pensioners are worse off than most other Europeans of their age

[Hairyesterdaygonetoday]

Something to think about, after the government abolished the winter fuel allowance and then ignored the Ombudsman's recommendation to compensate Waspi women.

The UK has one of the lowest old-age pensions in Europe, says a new House of Commons research briefing, 17 December:

The UK devotes a smaller percentage of its GDP to state pensions and pensioner benefits than most other advanced economies.

A comparison of state pension alone shows the UK providing a lower level of pension than most other advanced economies relative to average earnings. The UK has an overall net replacement rate of 54.4% from mandatory pensions for an average earner, below the OECD average of 61.4%.

OECD estimated that 14.5% of people aged 66 and over in the UK were living in relative income poverty in 2022. This was the 14th highest rate among 34 OECD countries for which data was available for 2019-2022.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn00290/#:~:text=A%20comparison%20of%20state%20pension,the%20OECD%20average%20of%2061.4%25.

Thanks for that.

On another thread I posted about how the triple lock was introduced because the level of UK pension was so bad compared to other European countries.

And it seems that it hasn't worked in terms of improving that situation.

Too many people, including politicians who say we should get rid of the triple lock dont seem to understand why it was introduced, and just weaponise it to try and create friction between age groups. Whereas they could argue that the triple lock hasn't yet achieved its aim, but there are other groups in the UK who should maybe have a similart increase mechanism.

Worth noting, for anyone who doesn't know, older persioners actually get less money than newer pensioners, because of retiring at the former age of retirement.

So if people on the newer pensions (£221.20 pw) aren't managing, how much worse must it be for those on the old pension (£169.50 pw).

@IwantToRetire
The only people left on the old rate of £169.50 pw are getting that because they had another pension. They were paying a lower rate of NI and the rest of their NI ( known as SERPS) was being paid into their occupational pension or another pension. In my case, because I didn’t pay my SERPS into another pension, the old basic rate of state pension plus my SERPS payout come to just more than the new state pension.

I'm appreciating the number one song this Christmas.
A true case of raising public awareness.

No mention made that we also have one of the lowest rates of taxation. If we want better services / pension / etc, we need to pay in more.

Not true.

If you read the Government web site it is anyone who retired at the old retirement age. ie 60 for women 65 for men.

I know women in that situation.

Obviously and more likely to be, women who for some reason, ie raising children, or like my mother persuaded by my father his contributions would cover her pension so she didn't need to worry would not technically get the full pension. But could claim benefit (as it then was) to get increase what pittance they were getting.

And as for the idea that it is people who had a second pension. That is just laughable.

The concept of a second pension, was just not something anyone did. You accepted that you were being into the state system to get a pension on retirement.

Admittedly this group of people is getting smaller
Seriously, the facts about this are on every web site.

ie it applies to "a woman born before 6 April 1950 or a man born before 6 April 1945"

So men now aged 78 and over, and women aged 73 and over.

This is why we never have serious conversations about this, or the NHS etc.. Because of the myth that somehow we can do the same as countries who pay higher taxes.

And of course the decreasing birth rate.

The post war welfare system was built on the concept that their would always be enough children born to grow up to pay taxes.

'Worth noting, for anyone who doesn't know, older persioners actually get less money than newer pensioners, because of retiring at the former age of retirement.
So if people on the newer pensions (£221.20 pw) aren't managing, how much worse must it be for those on the old pension (£169.50 pw).'

well said, Iwantotretire. So often this isn't mentioned and many assume everyone is on the higher rate. DH is on the lower rate, after working 50 years, I am on the higher. I'm a WASPI by just a few days. Also they seldom mentioned that they shifted the goalposts again, extending the deadline for a second time.
we have the lowest state pension in Europe. I’ve got a list of actual,pensions across "Europe, but can't lay my hand on it ATM. However this. Hart says a lot.

My friend in Spain receives 1,500 euros a month State pension.

And that is an average wage for many people in Spain.

Quite.

SERPS was introduced in 1978. After that anyone paying full class 1 NI contributions paid into SERPS and this is why anyone working for sometime after then and paying all their NI contributions will get at least an old pension around similar value of the new one. Until 1977 married women could pay smaller NI contributions, known as ‘ married women’s stamp’.
So basically, the only people who won’t be getting an amount close to the new state pension are people who haven’t paid in as much. I don’t feel sorry for them.

"The concept of a second pension, was just not something anyone did."

This is such nonsense. Of course some people weren't offered occupational pensions by their employers, but many were.

My husband (born 1950) receives a state pension and an occupational pension. I am in my 60s and receive an occupational pension but not yet a state pension.

My parents (born in the 1920s) both had private work pensions, though my mother wasn't able to pay into one when she went back to work part time.

My grandfather, who was born in the 1890s also had one. He worked for the same organisation all his life (except when he was serving in the First World War) and retired in the 1950s. His pension paid him until he died in the 1970s and then paid my grandmother a widow's pension until she died in the 1990s.

The research briefing to which the OP posted a link says:

However, the relative position of pensioners converges if income from all sources is considered. Income from occupational and personal pensions is a relatively important source of pensioner income in the UK, in contrast to many other countries where state provision (financed either through social insurance contributions or general taxation) is dominant.

And paid a lot more in taxes than we do to fund it.

Rubbish. UK pensioners are filthy rich, entitled, never worked for anything, live in mansions, and the best thing they can do for their children is die before neeeding care so they can leave all thier money to the kids. I read it on MumsNet

You seem to be saying the Government is lying.

There maybe, and there are some on this thread, who have the background and work opportunities to have a second pension.

This thread is about the pension provided by the state.

The information I quote is from the Government web site.

ie for those who could retire at the old age limit get a smaller state pension that those who were and are required to work longer.

Wittering on about well I could do this, or my neighbour down the road did that is absolutely pointless and irrelevant.

The issue is, as set out in the OP, that by comparison to other EU countries the state (whichever Government) provide a lower STATE pension than other european countries.

Nobody every talks about the fact that the state has taken the decision that some old people should be able to survive on a lesser amount that others.

ie our country, the UK, is saying that if you were someone who for whatever reasons spend your life in low paid jobs, and paid the required amount towards your state pension, you are only entitle to live on less money than other old people.

It is just these sort of smug I'm alright, so anyone who isn't its their fault, that made this Government (Labour!!) think no one would give a shit if they cut the winter fuel allowance.

Well if you are happy to publicly say I'm alright, tough luck everyone else, go ahead.

I know this will be controversial but I started work with a retirement age of 60. This was increased to 65, then 66 and some months and now it's 67 or 67 and some months. It's probably going to be closer to 68 when I actually do retire.

I'm not going to get any compensation. I also had one final salary pension which will pay me £200 a year and the rest of my six pensions are defined contributions which will be lucky to pay me more than a total of £10k a year.

Pension provision is appalling and the WASPI women are just more vocal and effective than other groups. Most of them knew the pension age was increasing. My DM is older and when she was asked to pay the married women's contribution she refused because she said if she paid less she would get less. So different choices could have been made by those women years ago.

I don't see why why should get more than everyone else.

I am sorry this is totally untrue, not every body on the old basic pension was contracted out of SERPS, SERPS was earnings related and some people did not earn enough to qualify for it. I am a pension age benefit advisor (voluntary) I have just helped an 80 year old man claim pension credit he has just lost his wife and now lives on the old basic pension he worked for 45 years in a low paid job and did not earn enough for any earnings related second pensions.

This Labour Government is just going for the low hanging fruit for their money grab. They know they can't get it off the very wealthy who hide their money in the Cayman Islands or will just clear off abroad.

@IwantToRetire @Oldsu

I do accept that there are people only getting the basic old rate pension. However, as I said in my previous post, anyone who paid class 1 NI contributions after 1978 will be getting some SERPS in retirement.
The people who did not pay class 1NIC, were people who earned less than the LEL (lower earnings limit), which was very low. It is currently about £123 a week. This will be people who worked part time. This may be because they were not well. Self employed people did not pay class 1 NICs. The other group that did not pay class 1 NICs are married women that CHOSE not to pay full contributions.
I am not smug and I feel very sorry for some of the people who were not well enough to work. While it was well known that if you were self employed you had to invest in your own pension, some people didn’t earn enough to and I feel sorry for them . The people I don’t feel sorry for are the women that chose to pay less than the full stamp. If you choose to pay in less you shouldn’t expect to get the same out.
I don’t think you can compare our pensions with other European pensions. It has been accepted for decades that the state pension in the UK will only give you a very basic standard of living. We can’t tax the working people of today as they can’t afford it and are already contributing to their own second pensions.
I agree with the WFP being stopped but in my opinion they set the bar far too low.

I am never sure about these figures, because my friends here in France are always surprised that I have a state pension and an occupational pension. Their pensions are all combined into one.