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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

To think that 'Female' shouldn't be the 4th option in a list of 5 when being asked about gender?

62 replies

Shufflebumnessie · 13/12/2024 21:02

I'm having a rubbish day and am in the midst of feeling annoyed about everything so I'm quite happy to be told I'm over reacting.
I've just completed a survey sent to me by Dominos pizza (following a recent order). At the end of the survey it asked for a few questions for 'classification purposes'. It then asked 'Please select your gender', the bit that really annoyed me was the the 'Female' option was 4th down the list of 5 options. Surely it should state male & female as the first two, and then the non-binary / third gender, Prefer to self describe, Prefer not to answer options?
I just feel angry that female has been relegated to 4th place. Obviously male was number 1 in the list !
Apologies if this isn't the right place to rant, it's just been one of those days.

OP posts:
BonfireLady · 15/12/2024 11:44

MarieDeGournay · 15/12/2024 11:33

A different solution to the Gender/Sex issue is suggested by a Bill proposed by some Republicans in the US, the 'Defining Male and Female Act of 2024'.

It suggests officially conflating the two terms, which recognises the widespread conflation that goes on anyway - a lot of people use the word 'gender' as a polite synonym for sex, they don't mean it as in gender-woo.

(4) ‘gender’, when used alone to refer to males, females, or the natural differences between males and females—
‘‘(A) shall be considered a synonym for sex; and
‘‘(B) shall not be considered a synonym or short-hand expression for gender identity, experienced gender, gender expression, or gender role.
Republicans introduce bill to define ‘male’ and ‘female’ based on biological differences (US) | Mumsnet

It doesn't get around the confusion still present in terms like 'gender expression', but it would mean that tick-boxes on forms like this could only have two choices, M or F, whether the heading was 'sex' or 'gender', as those two words 'when used alone' would legally mean exactly the same thing.

Yep, that could work. It's a kind of "the horse has already bolted" solution.

However, it has huge risk because as soon as the word "gender" gets any other word stuck onto it, we're back to a muddle e.g. the protected characteristic of "gender reassignment" or the concept of an internal soul that is gender-aligned ("gender identity").

There's no perfect answer but my personal preference is to bring back the simplicity of the word sex in law and leave "gender" to the genderists. I appreciate it's not a great solution for any feminists who want to talk about the social construct of gender in society but I also think that discussion has been hijacked to a point where it's only clear if people talk about sex-based stereotypes instead of "gender stereotypes" etc. But perhaps that's easy for me to say, given I'm not on the frontline of feminism.

Portakalkedi · 15/12/2024 11:44

Hope you make a complaint to them. If anything female should come first as the majority (51%) of us are indeed female.

Greyskybluesky · 15/12/2024 11:44

Stop thinking, wims!

BonfireLady · 15/12/2024 12:58

Greyskybluesky · 15/12/2024 11:44

Stop thinking, wims!

Good point!

Here's Harry Enfield's timely reminder that our brains won't cope with that 🙃

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/LS37SNYjg8w?si=_My2bQAKk_8D4Kh7

MarieDeGournay · 15/12/2024 13:19

anniegun · 15/12/2024 11:42

Many surveys randomise the order otherwise there is a heavy bias towards the first answer. You are probably way over thinking this. Non of this stuff is compulsory

So if they put 'Female' first, randomly, some respondents will say they are female just because it's the first answer??

There's overthinking, there's underthinking, and there's just plain thinkingSmile

BonfireLady · 15/12/2024 13:58

MarieDeGournay · 15/12/2024 13:19

So if they put 'Female' first, randomly, some respondents will say they are female just because it's the first answer??

There's overthinking, there's underthinking, and there's just plain thinkingSmile

Presumably so.

Easily done, right? You wake up pretty sure you know yourself and before you realise it, you've declared yourself agender, because it was first on the list of the 72 genders.

Handily, being agender effectively means the same thing as "I don't believe I have a gender identity".... so.... it turns out you do have a gender. You have an agender gender.

After wondering for just a few seconds how that might work, you sit back with relief at how simple it all is in the end. All you needed to do was not overthink this, tick the first option and you're sorted.

(Here's your flag ⬇️)

To think that 'Female' shouldn't be the 4th option in a list of 5 when being asked about gender?
BaronessBomburst · 15/12/2024 14:07

Presumably they think that basement dwellers are more likely to order pizza than women?
Dominoes are terrible pizzas anyway.

Skyellaskerry · 15/12/2024 15:28

BonfireLady · 15/12/2024 11:27

At work, I refuse to answer anything that asks for my gender, it is their loss because the data they are hoping to get will not be accurate. It’s the assumption that we all have a gender, or those who still think that it’s just another word for sex that need to wake up.

Me too. I had previously asked the head of EDI to change how these questions are asked on the forms where this comes up.

I had suggested that they could ask for sex recorded at birth first, then to ask for "gender identity (if applicable)", making sure to include an N/A option.

Unfortunately I didn't receive a response to my suggestion, despite the fact that we had had a positive meeting about why it's not appropriate for this belief to be positioned as fact. It was clear that she had outsourced all thinking on this, believing that the LGBT network understood it better than her. She told me it was important to remember how marginalised trans people were.

One positive outcome did result from my discussions, where they updated a company policy to correctly explain the protected characteristics in the EA and to remove the previous conflation of sex, sexual orientation and gender reassignment. Unfortunately the mandatory and voluntary training which includes gender identity as fact still continues. As does the collection of staff diversity data in which gender identity supersedes sex. And mine is still empty.

Good on you for trying and the changes that were made, despite not hearing back on your main request. It’s hard to speak out. I wish I could. It’s mad that this exclusion of many employees is under the guise of being inclusive.

shuggles · 17/12/2024 22:24

@JRorBobby I get annoyed when it's always male first and then female. So that would REALLY piss me off!

"Ladies and gentlemen."

cariadlet · 17/12/2024 22:33

teawamutu · 15/12/2024 10:10

If I get 'prefer to self-describe' I always put 'no gender. SEX is female'.

I did something similar at work last week.

I looked at the settings on one of the systems that we use to see what info they had about me.
It correctly had my sex as female and the gender identity field was blank. I decided to fill it in and chose "prefer to self describe." I was then able to type into the preferred pronouns box so put "I don't have a gender identity. Please use sex based pronouns."

I don't know if anyone will notice but it gave me a bit of quiet satisfaction.

user98786 · 18/12/2024 10:44

Complain!!

https://www.dominos.co.uk/contact/form

MimiGC · 18/12/2024 11:01

I just completed a survey from my GP which only had the options:
Male
Female
Gender neutral.

I used the free text box to tell them that I thought it was very concerning that actual qualified medical professionals thought they were treating patients who weren't male or female.

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