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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Baroness Cass: I don't have time for keyboard warriors in their basements

22 replies

IwantToRetire · 10/12/2024 01:53

... Cass says “the most important thing” she is in discussions about, including with NHS England, is around public information: “We need a much, much broader, proactive communication strategy and public health approach so that everybody knows the facts because otherwise the disinformation still fills the space.

“We need a trusted, NHS-blessed source of information for parents and young people, and we need broader education for primary and secondary care teams to know what the facts are, what they should be doing, their responsibilities. Because if everyone’s not on the same page of understanding, what’s happening is that children end up in specialist centres without even giving them the best information. Then the only information they get is off the internet, which says the only thing that’s going to help them is hormones, and that clearly may not be the case.”

She praises the “vast majority of politicians” on their handling of the review as, “for the most part, it was not about politicising it” – and was relieved that both major political parties, Labour and the Conservatives, publicly supported the review, which Cass argues has proven “hugely important in partly dialling down the rhetoric”.

The Lib Dems are yet to make a formal statement on the Cass Review. “No,” she says, with a somewhat defeated look, “they haven’t yet. We are hoping to get to meet them because, as luck would have it, we were due to speak to them the very afternoon that Rishi Sunak called the election, so we’re hoping to remedy that as soon as possible. It is important that we have dialogue with them.”

The proactive dialogue, Cass says, should be around “how do we protect everybody’s rights and safety?”. It means she has little patience for questions like ‘does a woman have a penis?’. “What does the journalist hope to achieve when they ask that question?” she asks. “It’s a really unhelpful, reductive way of dealing with things, and that’s not addressing the issues... It just typifies what goes on in this debate of people wanting to make it polarised.”

Cass was “pleased” that Health Secretary Wes Streeting “was decisive” on extending the puberty blockers ban but recognises that, with the time limit on the temporary curbs, “he had to do something”. She doesn’t know what his final decision will be.

Responding to the argument that the ban is driving the use of puberty blockers underground, she says: “You can never completely eliminate harmful substances, whether it’s ecstasy or whatever, but I still think that there is a responsibility on government to try and reduce the extent to which young people are exposed to medicines or drugs that may be harmful. And the real key, the real prize here, is getting faster access to services, even local services.”

She believes one of the best things to come out of her review is the ability to have open conversations about gender and “answer the questions that maybe people have been afraid to ask in other settings”. ...

Please note! these are only a few paragraphs from a quite long article. Including interesting comments about the BMA - see https://www.politicshome.com/thehouse/article/baroness-hilary-cass-gender-review-interview-brexit-terf-trans-care

(I wonder if she thinks FWRighters are "keyboard warriors"? Hmm )

Baroness Cass: I don't have time for keyboard warriors in their basements

The Cass Review into NHS gender services for children opened up the national conversation on this controversial subject, and divided opinion. Its a...

https://www.politicshome.com/thehouse/article/baroness-hilary-cass-gender-review-interview-brexit-terf-trans-care

OP posts:
Villagetoraiseachild · 10/12/2024 04:16

Bumping.

JessaWoo · 10/12/2024 04:17

I think she meant those that reflexively oppose the report without even reading or engaging with it in any sense. She much prefers talking through arguments in person.

tweddler · 10/12/2024 06:14

This is the quote on keyboard warriors: "The people who sit in basements, who are keyboard warriors, who want to say things that are abusive, are much less important than the people I can actually have a proper dialogue with".

WeMeetInFairIthilien · 10/12/2024 07:04

Baroness Cass, how well that sounds!

Lovelyview · 10/12/2024 07:17

She cuts through all the nonsense. I hope she sits down with the Lib Dems very soon because the sooner all the major parties start saying the same thing, the better.

FigRollsAlly · 10/12/2024 07:40

Pretty shocking that the LibDems still haven’t engaged with this.

CautiousLurker01 · 10/12/2024 07:51

All very well wanting an NHS-blessed website as the gold standard of information… but the NHS was captured and it’s advice on the GD pages was woefully ideological - ie wrong.

OldCrone · 10/12/2024 08:03

FigRollsAlly · 10/12/2024 07:40

Pretty shocking that the LibDems still haven’t engaged with this.

But not altogether surprising. They seem pretty captured. There's also that big question mark about them getting funding from one of the pharmaceutical companies which manufactures puberty blockers.

ArabellaScott · 10/12/2024 08:35

FigRollsAlly · 10/12/2024 07:40

Pretty shocking that the LibDems still haven’t engaged with this.

Yes.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 10/12/2024 09:02

CautiousLurker01 · 10/12/2024 07:51

All very well wanting an NHS-blessed website as the gold standard of information… but the NHS was captured and it’s advice on the GD pages was woefully ideological - ie wrong.

She does need to address the power that transactivists have in the NHS as that undermines seeing it as "a trusted, NHS-blessed source of information". The NHS could very quickly resolve this at the most senior level if they determined that no more funding / staff time / DEI initiatives were to be spent promoting transactivism / political queer theory.

Until they do that, the NHS will continue to be captured.

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 10/12/2024 09:55

"NHS-blessed"? The NHS that gave us the infected blood scandal, countless maternity scandals, Paterson, vaginal mesh, DNRs...the NHS has enormous strides to make in winning back our trust. "Blessed" is a no from me. It sounds captured as a term. We must always be able to question the NHS. It's the fact it's seen as untouchable, is how we got here with GIDS to begin with. And the fawning over a man who's assumed a woman identity. What's going on here?

ellenback21 · 10/12/2024 10:24

Excerpts from current NHS online:

Gender surgery for trans men includes:

  • construction of a penis (phalloplasty or metoidioplasty)
  • construction of a scrotum (scrotoplasty) and testicular implants
  • a penile implant

Gender surgery for trans women includes:

  • construction of a vagina (vaginoplasty)
  • construction of a vulva (vulvoplasty)
  • construction of a clitoris (clitoroplasty)

This page has disturbed me for a while. Young people or people with limited scientific comprehension or people who think literally will look at this and honestly believe that they can have a fully functioning penis or vagina because the NHS has told them so.
This page needs some serious editing to explain that they will only ever get a poor visual imitation of limited or zero function.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/
Edited to add liink

RethinkingLife · 10/12/2024 12:48

I agree with Ellen - there have been so many NHS mis-steps, not least with their signposts to other sources of information.

I'm disappointed but not surprised that the NHS page doesn't link to a fuller description of what the surgery is and what the actual outcome and function would be.

RunoroundTheChristmasTree · 10/12/2024 12:57

Never sure whether Cass is choosing her words very carefully so that she has the chance to get some actual change in place. Nevertheless, this article contained the old trope of ‘the two sides just won’t sit down and talk to each other’, whereas my experience here is that most of us would love a gender identity believer to logically explain their pov and discuss in good faith.

It also contained the (I paraphrase) ‘asking someone if a woman can have a penis is unhelpful’ position. I am now firmly of the opinion that the definition of ‘woman’ (the genderland version) is absolutely key to this - I have yet to hear one that doesn’t include circular references. This flaw in the very foundations of gi is hardly unimportant!

RunoroundTheChristmasTree · 10/12/2024 13:28

All of that said, I’m truly grateful to Baroness Cass for her diligent work and careful report. It is such an important piece

MarieDeGournay · 10/12/2024 13:35

RunoroundTheChristmasTree It also contained the (I paraphrase) ‘asking someone if a woman can have a penis is unhelpful’ position.

I share your slight disappointment that she didn't have anything stronger than 'unhelpful' to say about asking if a woman can have a penis!
' ..is an indication of the level of ignorance of basic biological facts' would have been good; or
'..let's leave speculation like that to the keyboard warriors in their basements';
or even just a derisive snort..

But the perfect should not be the enemy of the good, and I think Baroness Cass is as good as it gets at that level of professional expertise and public awareness.

Lovelyview · 10/12/2024 13:57

MarieDeGournay · 10/12/2024 13:35

RunoroundTheChristmasTree It also contained the (I paraphrase) ‘asking someone if a woman can have a penis is unhelpful’ position.

I share your slight disappointment that she didn't have anything stronger than 'unhelpful' to say about asking if a woman can have a penis!
' ..is an indication of the level of ignorance of basic biological facts' would have been good; or
'..let's leave speculation like that to the keyboard warriors in their basements';
or even just a derisive snort..

But the perfect should not be the enemy of the good, and I think Baroness Cass is as good as it gets at that level of professional expertise and public awareness.

I agree. TRAs have tried to discredit Cass partly through implying she's got an anti Trans agenda and had one before she started the review. She is doing her best work focusing solely and specifically on the Cass Review, its methodology and its findings. I think she's done a fantastic job within the remit she was given and she is at her most powerful speaking only within that remit at the moment.

Fenlandia · 10/12/2024 14:23

MarieDeGournay · 10/12/2024 13:35

RunoroundTheChristmasTree It also contained the (I paraphrase) ‘asking someone if a woman can have a penis is unhelpful’ position.

I share your slight disappointment that she didn't have anything stronger than 'unhelpful' to say about asking if a woman can have a penis!
' ..is an indication of the level of ignorance of basic biological facts' would have been good; or
'..let's leave speculation like that to the keyboard warriors in their basements';
or even just a derisive snort..

But the perfect should not be the enemy of the good, and I think Baroness Cass is as good as it gets at that level of professional expertise and public awareness.

Great post, articulated exactly how I feel. The "can a woman have a penis?" gambit has been excellent at making people in politics and the media squirm or spout nonsense. This is still important, alongside the careful evidence-based work that Cass has done. If all we had needed all along was Cass, we wouldn't still be seeing all the madness play out in the Supreme Court, sports administration, schools and the NHS!

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 10/12/2024 14:27

FigRollsAlly · 10/12/2024 07:40

Pretty shocking that the LibDems still haven’t engaged with this.

In hock to big Pharma , manufacturers of puberty blockers!

😿££££

IwantToRetire · 10/12/2024 19:40

There's another version of the interview here

It's that same article as in the OP.

OP posts:
lcakethereforeIam · 10/12/2024 20:11

Apologies, I should have checked.

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