Caitlin Moran - no more sold out gigs?

[FourLastSongs]

Saw in Popbitch (so it may be complete bollocks) that Caitlin 'Voice of Modern Womanhood" Moran is having trouble selling out her public events.

"Weekly seat filler update: Using the service to fill out their gigs this week... Caitlin Moran (in discussion with Alex James)"

It is almost as if the kind of women who would buy tickets to her events are not massively impressed by her seeming inability to say that maybe locking up male sex offenders with vulnerable women is not the best idea.

Years ago I would have loved to go see her talk. I really enjoyed 'How to Be a Woman', and rated her as a columnist. But I now actively avoid her. And even though I have a subscription of The Times I never read her now.

Recently I reread a review of a project from years ago. I have aged better than the review.
It appeared there could only be one woman in a genre. The multiple men involved got off rather lightly.

Shame. I think she used to be hear occasionally when it was all fields. You'd find echos in her columns.

Yes. Sad. I don’t have to agree with everything a writer says or even anything they say. But there’s something horribly arrogant about downplaying the safety of your own sex and that of the majority of your readership and expecting them to still pay to see you/read you. It’s like crazy hubris and taking us for granted.

@MaggieBsBoat “But there’s something horribly arrogant about downplaying the safety of your own sex and that of the majority of your readership and expecting them to still pay to see you”

Absolutely this! You put what I was trying to say perfectly.

I used to read her columns, now I feel I've heard everything she says before. She's the writers' epitome of recycling. Fucking tedious.

Surely this reflects on Alex, not Caitlyn? It's his new book that she's hosting a conversation about, presumably.

Well it’s a double whammy of a tour on ‘what about men’ from a former champion of women who has completely sat out the gender debate. Not even taken a side but sat it out entirely. So you stop being relevant. I’m a Times subscriber and used to be an avid reader but haven’t made any effort to read her stuff in years now and I wonder what her readership stats are like - with digital Times HQ would know what her page hits are like. I can understand looking at what’s happened to Kathleen Stock etc that you wouldn’t want to get involved - the fear is real - but I thought CM was made of stronger stuff. Perhaps she has a trans child and it’s too awkward, that’s my generous view.

I don't bother with her articles on The Times either. She's a really flat people-pleaser. No guts to stand up for women's rights

When the Times went behind a paywall (£8.66 pm!) she was the main reason I subscribed. I also loved India Knight.
Now I only keep it because of Janice Turner.

India Knight used to be on here back in the day. That's when I first started mumsnet when she brought out a book on low-carb with her friend. They lost five stone each but I never knew whether they kept it off. I did get the impression they came on here to drum up an audience but do remember quite a lot of criticism here because her book wasn't exactly for the average woman, put it that way. There's not a lot of call for canapés in a lot of houses on a school night!

She's the epitome of the hyper privileged luxury beliefs of the sort that enable women to pretend that TWAW and TW aren't really a threat.

Moran's privileged, complacent brand of liberal feminism is so last decade. Times have changed, things for women have gotten worse. Give me the righteous rage and incisive perspicuity of Bindel, Stock and Joyce. I have no time for Caitlin 'oooh I'm mad me, a strong woman look I wear Doc Martens n everything' Moran.

Or any of her ilk. Emma Watson and Kirsty Allsopp and everyone else who is too afraid of losing their lifelong ticket to the North London dinner party circuit to actually speak up for vulnerable women.

ALL HAIL JKR.

Exactly this. I loved How To Be A Woman and I even went to see her live - but have to admit it was in my only-lefty-approved-opinions-here-thanks days and before I realised her 'outspokenness' only applied to views pre-approved by the MC groupthink.

Then she responded to the redefinition of women by wittering on about the MAN IN HER MENOPAUSE GROUP's nifty way with accessories. Not bothered to read a word of hers since.

'Moran's privileged, complacent brand of liberal feminism is so last decade. Times have changed, things for women have gotten worse. Give me the righteous rage and incisive perspicuity of Bindel, Stock and Joyce. I have no time for Caitlin 'oooh I'm mad me, a strong woman look I wear Doc Martens n everything' Moran.'

Brilliantly put. Listening to Helen Joyce gives me life. I actually love her. Caitlin is just an irritation these days. There was some great stuff in 'How To Be A Woman' but sadly she's become a joke since then

'Then she responded to the redefinition of women by wittering on about the MAN IN HER MENOPAUSE GROUP's nifty way with accessories. Not bothered to read a word of hers since.'

I think this was Ayesha Hazarika, not Caitlin. But yes - SHAMEFUL

Ah, I think you're right.

In which case my moment of snap was possibly when she tweeted one night about being afraid to walk home alone and this was a woman thing, because y' know, wombs.

Then posted next day cringing and fawning because not all women have wombs especially the penisy kind but we're all women (maybe especially the penisy kind) and she'd Do Better in future.

Eyes rolling like a pinball machine on jackpot.

I have no idea who she is so would not be interested in going to one of her gigs

'In which case my moment of snap was possibly when she tweeted one night about being afraid to walk home alone and this was a woman thing, because y' know, wombs.
Then posted next day cringing and fawning because not all women have wombs especially the penisy kind but we're all women (maybe especially the penisy kind) and she'd Do Better in future'

Oh yes, that was definitely Caitlin! Also tried to excuse herself by saying that she was 'on the blob' at the time so feeling 'particularly womby'. I think she was 46 years old at the time. Good god

This. I’m no fan of Caitlin but I wonder if it’s that her usual audience aren’t interested in Alex James? If it was the same response to say her with eg Jess Phillips or a female pop star then that would be interesting.

It’s the fact that she pretends to say it like it is and then doesn’t that is so harmful. I can almost give people like Marian Keyes a free pass because she is evidently consumed with anxiety, but Caitlin pretends to be brave and isn’t. It’s much worse.

Nope, I don't give any of them a pass. If you explicitly trade on your 'womanhood' to bolster your public status and profession (as Keyes also does since she explores in her novels feminist issues such as abortion access and DV) then you have a responsibility to educate yourself about what women less privileged than you are going through, and to speak accordingly.

Keyes' novels are fairly popular in women's prison libraries (nowhere near as popular as Martina Cole but still). She needs to not remain deliberately in blissful ignorance just because she thinks her bank account depends on it.

'Nope, I don't give any of them a pass. If you explicitly trade on your 'womanhood' to bolster your public status and profession (as Keyes also does since she explores in her novels feminist issues such as abortion access and DV) then you have a responsibility to educate yourself about what women less privileged than you are going through, and to speak accordingly.'

I absolutely hear you, and I do agree. And yet, I can understand why high profile successful women are terrified. If Marian Keyes were to share any gender critical views (I have no idea if she has any), her career would probably be screwed and she would get no end of horrible abuse. She had a lovely life and a much loved public persona, and I can understand why she would want to protect both. And yet, there's the small matter of The Truth, and standing up for other women

Alex James appears to be sweet but very dull, so it's possible.

But I'd suspect it's a combo of him being uninteresting and CM's schtick being tired, these days.

No point writing a comment as @GiveMeSpanakopita has put it brilliantly.

I can understand anyone's reluctance to speak out on the issue, but this is her bread and butter topic!!! It's a special kind of cowardice which comes from being comfortable in the London bubble.

She probably doesn't hold GC views. I've read all her books and, since she pretty much self-inserts/writes very true to her life experiences, you can clearly track the lower middle class apolitical - to - highly privileged wealthy luxury liberal beliefs pipeline of her world view.

And yet, I can understand why high profile successful women are terrified.

Right. But it comes down to whether you think privilege brings responsibility. I've been poor, vulnerable and a victim of DV and SA in my life, now I'm old and, after a LOT of effort, support and bad years, live what in my book is a privileged life (own small flat, feel safe, can buy whatever I fancy in Aldi without worrying the cost). I'm hyper aware that that puts me in the top five percentile of the experience of women in the rest of the world. That's how bad things are for women - that they mostly can't expect safety, equality and comfort as a given. So someone like Keyes, who is like, in the top 0000000.1% percentile, and HAS experienced hardship and addiction, has a responsibility. In my view. Not saying my view is right. Just what I think.

I think there's an assumption amongst certain types that you are right of centre if you actually think JKR has a point- personally I'm centre left and I stand totally with JKR on this issue- I'm absolutely fed up of gender issues and trans dominating agendas- that doesn't mean I think there should be negative prejudice of the trans community or they should be discriminated against job wise etc but nor do I want this topic taking over forums and political discourse rather than economy, jobs, health, housing etc!!

Thing is with Caitlin and many others who played on the 'look how funky and Camden we are' ( and I lived around there mid 90s) is they are desparate in middle age still to be relevant and funky and hip and therefore don't always I feel come out with what they think in reality - In a similar vein I remember reading an interview in a music mag a few years ago with the columnist/reviewer Mark Ellen - who was always up for the newest 'in' band of the time and very dismissive of the 'old dinosaurs' in a snooty 'look how cool I am' way - he actually admitted that he wrote this stuff and then used to go home to listen to Pink Floyd, Rush etc

I don’t know if this is it- I feel there are huge chunks of the population who self identify as feminist but never give this topic a single thought beyond ‘jk Rowling has really disappointed with that nasty stuff she said, don’t know what exactly’. So not sure there would be a Caitlin Moran backlash. I think it’s more likely she’s not offering anything new or interesting really.

I imagine that 90% of Caitlin's fans (or perhaps ex fans) are middle age and older women, i.e. the main demographic of gender critics.

TBF, I do think CM is hugely talented as a writer. Her metaphors are brilliant. However, I won't buy her books/ see her show until she acknowledges her sisters in the trenches.