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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New plans for IVF availability

14 replies

mumda · 23/11/2024 11:42

Hadn't seen anything in the news but watching some blackbelt barrister (at the time stamp for this bit) Trans men, Lesbians and single women get immediate access to IVF

Document at this link gives the details
https://joinedupcarederbyshire.co.uk/download/fertilitycaseforchangefull/

NONSENSE ALERT:
So a woman, who thinks she's a man, can have IVF. Because men routinely have IVF and babies.

The proposal for the East Midlands Fertility Policy is to offer up to three cycles of unstimulated IUI/DI for those couples / individuals where vaginal intercourse is not possible or appropriate prior to considering IVF.
Single women or trans men with no known fertility issues (must have regular ovulation, and patent tubes) will also be offered for up to three cycles of unstimulated DI where the donor has a normal sperm count

OP posts:
Alwayslurkingsometimesposting · 23/11/2024 11:44

I'm fairly terfy but fail to see the issue with this tbh

mumda · 23/11/2024 11:46

The plans, explained in a document called ‘The Case For Change’, are out for an eight-week public consultation ending in January, meaning the new policy could come into force next year.

Consultation document should be somewhere.

OP posts:
Chersfrozenface · 23/11/2024 11:51

If you go to the site below, scroll down and expand 'Case for Change', under the words"Read the full" you'll find a link to the document.

https://www.icnorthamptonshire.org.uk/fertility-review/

ToBeOrNotToBee · 23/11/2024 11:53

Alwayslurkingsometimesposting · 23/11/2024 11:44

I'm fairly terfy but fail to see the issue with this tbh

It's more that heterosexual couples need to do the usual waiting for natural conception which is being argued is unfair.

Snugglemonkey · 23/11/2024 13:22

ToBeOrNotToBee · 23/11/2024 11:53

It's more that heterosexual couples need to do the usual waiting for natural conception which is being argued is unfair.

I understand why it would upset people, however I see why this makes sense. It is clear that some couples will never get pregnant, no matter the wait. So there is no point in waiting. Lots, however, will fall pregnant naturally, if they keep trying for a bit longer. Saving the NHS money and the couple the trauma of ivf. I do not think it is discriminatory.

mumda · 23/11/2024 14:55

Snugglemonkey · 23/11/2024 13:22

I understand why it would upset people, however I see why this makes sense. It is clear that some couples will never get pregnant, no matter the wait. So there is no point in waiting. Lots, however, will fall pregnant naturally, if they keep trying for a bit longer. Saving the NHS money and the couple the trauma of ivf. I do not think it is discriminatory.

But a woman who wants to be a man enough to "transition", whatever that means, shouldn't be given IVF.
They need to have some help working out how messed up their thinking is.

OP posts:
MelodyMalone · 23/11/2024 15:38

IUI isn't IVF. It's basically just artificial insemination. Much cheaper and less invasive.

RethinkingLife · 23/11/2024 17:02

It's known as reproductive justice.

It will be interesting to see if there's mission creep over time.

MolkosTeenageAngst · 23/11/2024 17:07

It’s not IVF though? It’s saying that prior to undergoing IVF individuals or couples who cannot ‘try’ for a baby naturally (penis in vagina sex between a man and a woman) will have 3 free tries of artificial insemination. Most heterosexual couples would have no need to try artificial insemination as they are able to inseminate naturally.

MelodyMalone · 23/11/2024 17:08

MolkosTeenageAngst · 23/11/2024 17:07

It’s not IVF though? It’s saying that prior to undergoing IVF individuals or couples who cannot ‘try’ for a baby naturally (penis in vagina sex between a man and a woman) will have 3 free tries of artificial insemination. Most heterosexual couples would have no need to try artificial insemination as they are able to inseminate naturally.

Exactly. Unstimulated IUI is not much different from the old turkey baster technique of yore.

Occasionalnamechanger · 23/11/2024 17:20

So before IVF people who can try naturally should, and people who can't try naturally get IUI which is basically the NHS providing the missing sperm.

Makes sense. I'm not quite sure what the problem is. In all cases the NHS is suggesting the simpler route is tried first before the more challenging and invasive option and they can't exactly tell a single woman or lesbian couple to rustle up some sperm on their own.

ChaChaChooey · 25/11/2024 13:09

I’m quite cautious about anything involving gamete donation out of concern for donor conceived people (while some are unbothered by their biological origins others are traumatised by it).

That said, it seems to me that this policy will help in making official, medically supervised donor conception viable for those who might otherwise have gone down the ‘private donor’ route, which can result in far too many children being born to one sperm donor and removes the rights of donor conceived people to access records relating to their conception and genetic medical history as well as the donors name in a controlled manner (after the child has reached the age of majority). These measures were introduced to support the long term wellbeing of donor conceived people (genealogy DNA websites mean there is no way to keep genetic parentage completely secret anymore anyway so it’s much better to have a supportive legal framework for DCP to find out about genetic relatives than leave them to muddle through after finding out by accident).

Clinic-based IUI also ensures the sperm used has been tested for STDs and some inheritable conditions, which obviously you don’t get if you buy a cup of sperm off some random bloke on a facebook group.

Plus it gives a same sex female couple a route to parental responsibility (including financial responsibility) for the non-pregnant partner that doesn’t involve the faff of the birth mother having to temporarily relinquish parental responsibility and adopt their own biological child as part of a couple, which is how it was 20 years ago (I was reference for some lesbian friends who had to do this almost 20 years ago. I had to do an in-person interview with social services! By the time their second child was born the law had changed and they could skip this faff. They are still together and their eldest just started university ❤️)

How anyone can ‘identify as a man’ and still want to carry a baby is somewhat beyond me but I suspect that the experience of pregnancy/maternity can contribute to detransition ideation and eventual detransition (it must be hard to keep convincing yourself that you are male when you are engaged in something uniquely female).

Again, NHS clinic based conception is going to be better for children of transmen than any alternative because the clinic can insist on withdrawal from exogenous testosterone and only carrying out IUI when hormone levels are back to normal female, which gives any resulting child the best chance of being full term and healthy.

Children (overall, not specifically DCP) raised by same sex parents seem to do well by all measurable means (education, employment, relationships, health) and women who are choosing single parenthood from conception are generally already sorted in terms of housing and economic security and have weighed up the pros and cons of doing it alone (as opposed to me who had an unplanned baby at 23 by someone I’d already broken up with before I wee’d on a stick 🙀)

So overall I think this is likely a positive development and the costs to the public purse are probably justifiable due to concerns about falling birth rates.

OuterSpaceCadet · 25/11/2024 17:37

I think positive too, for reasons already stated.

I feel for single women who want children because they have much less time than men. I think it is safer for a woman to conceive alone than enter a shit relationship just out of desperation due to a ticking clock. I wish it were not like this, but it is not women's fault that many men make shit partners.

I feel for the women duped by trans ideology and I think they should continue to be treated as women for their own safety and wellbeing, which this policy broadly is doing.

I don't have to agree with somebody's belief to wish them to be treated well.

TempestTost · 25/11/2024 17:55

I suppose single men will be able to do this as well soon.

I think gamete donation has serious ethical issues, so I'm not particularly keen on it being provided through the state in any case. It seems to go against all the principles around rights of children that we accept for adoption.

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