Woman's Hour 20.11.24 Darlington Nurses.

[WinterTrees]

I've almost lost the will to chart the craven betrayal of women by this dickpandering programme, but I think it's still useful to keep a record of every time the BBC chucks women under the bus.

Here is a classic example.

Listen if you can stomach it. It's the second item on the programme (after coverage of the incredible Gisele Pelicot - a woman who is standing up against patriarchy and the dominancy of macho, sexually predatory culture) and on the upside the nurse, Bethany, is clear and calm and articulate. She deserves a listen at least. Nuala McGovern, presenter of the BBC's flagship women's programme, whose remit is to centre female perspective, had a cynical tone throughout, pressing Bethany on her Christian beliefs (the implication being that she's some kind of evangelical nutcase) and utterly failing to show any empathy or understanding whatsoever of why a woman doesn't want to undress in front of a man.

I know it's no surprise anymore, but somehow it's still disappointing. And fucking enraging.

That's perfect.

Nuala should be ashamed of herself. She just came across as stupid and/or nasty. She's definitely not a feminist.

Bethany came across as intelligent, in the right, unflappable. No reasonable person would disagree with her - indeed I'm sure she peaked some more people too.

Nuala was appalling. Bethany did very well. And she got out the (obvious) third space option. It is difficult to think that most people listening wouldn't have thought that that is a completely reasonable and acceptable approach.

WH have never invited on Helen Joyce...but did invite Grace Lavery.

That tells me plenty about their editorial integrity.

Thanks for the thread and heads up. I was knee deep in kids and playdough at the time so will listen when I can.

I'm really pleased she was on. Clearly there's some concern about the questions; at the same time journalists must do their jobs and I'm always so proud of all the women who are making stands against all this bs, who go on wh, because they can always answer so clearly, confidently and succinctly

Unlike the other side which is usually a wash out.

Yes I miss EB. The Steph interview was particularly fantastic.

I think that's what a lot of people still think. Harmless, vulnerable, feminine gay guys who hate their male bodies and just want to live happy female lives as one of the girls. Not Big Dave from the building site in a wig, who has no intention whatsoever of getting rid of his penis, and is in fact extremely happy with it.

Please don’t remind us about that…it really doesn’t deserve thinking about.

It still blows my mind. Whenever their name crops up about this subject, which it does it's best to ignore.
That fact jumps straight into my head.

Those employee groups/TRAs at the BBC really do earn their money, don't they?
Or could it be someone in the WH production team has a 'trans kid'?

Or maybe both??

I'm not crediting Nuala with asking that question in order to give Bethany the right of reply. It’s a comment we see trotted out ad nauseum on these pages. Frightened Karen’s clutching their pearls can be the only reason for objecting to men in women’s spaces. The ‘OMG it never happens’ eye roll argument.

I’m only surprised that Nuala didn’t reply that women can be sexually assaulted anywhere. We see that comment often enough. It was great Bethany included voyeurism because that doesn’t happen just anywhere but specifically in women only spaces.

I heard the interview and was delighted that the nurses' case was being given such an open airing. Yes the obvious questions were asked, but if they hadn't been, can you imagine the complaints the BBC would have been hit with, never mind the interviewer herself.
The important thing is that while the "usual" questions were asked, Bethany was given plenty of room to answer them fully, which she did superbly. (And at least they were questions, not accusations and interruptions.)

I’m not a fan of Nuala, and I find her voice and tone annoying at the best of times, but I think she’s being a little unfairly criticised here. She asked the questions listeners inclined to be sceptical about the nurses’ concerns (and we know there are unfortunately, many of those) would, and gave Bethany time to answer fully, effectively making her case. Which is basically, her job.

But in general, WH is and was a disgrace, I agree.

How many women would be sceptical of those 'concerns'? What is there to be sceptcal about? This is Woman's Hour. It spends most of its air time listening to, or reporting on, women's accounts and stories and offering a sympathetic ear.

Just created a thread on this: NHS Grampian is doubling down with a plan to push trans in its equality plan over the next four years, with lobby groups to provide ‘training’. Please complete their consultation:

https://www.nhsgrampian.org/equality-outcomes-2025-2029-consultation

I've just listened and I agree. I also think the question about what might happen if a man is in the women's changing room, although crazy to us, was worth asking so that Bethany could give a clear and concise answer. I think Nuala did her a favour and Bethany was brilliant - articulate and straightforward.

Interestingly but not surprisingly, this segment did not appear on WH's X/Twitter feed for comment. Cowards.

I don’t know, and I don’t know. But we do know that there are women who will support the transwoman (we see them on MN) and they’re the ones I’m referring to. At least they will have heard Bethany’s case clearly and expansively articulated.
Had the interviewer kept interrupting and not letting her finish her points, I would feel very differently.

I think there are lots of women who see it as a "be kind" issue and assume all TW to be vulnerable and oppressed, like other vulnerable and oppressed groups who it's right for right-thinking people to support. They probably won't re-evaluate that unless they directly experience something to cause them to do so.

Just listened, Bethany was brilliant.

The questioning about the Christian support was I thought very close to implying Christianity is bad, which given religion is a protected characteristic I thought was hostile and bordered on discriminatory. I simply do not believe if that had been a Muslim nurse they'd have asked her if she supported extreme Muslim beliefs/actions in the same way as asking Bethany about totally unrelated anti-abortion Christians . Good for her for refusing to answer that toxic and unrelated question.

It was a shame Bethany didn't point out that the union refused to support them as that's partly why they had to turn elsewhere for support, but she did about a million times better than most guests and politicians, despite the hostile line of questioning. The hostile questioning on Christianity particularly grated when set alongside the use of wrong sex pronouns for the bloke who now has personal use of an entire changing room while all the women nurses are shoved in a cupboard. Showing Nuala's belief in gender ideology and inappropriate bias.

Finally got around to listening. Thought Bethany was absolutely excellent and fielded all the questions and potential traps brilliantly. Well done.

Well done Bethany . There can be no doubt in any listeners mind about why the women are fighting their cause. But Nuala had no need to carry on calling the trans person She, after Bethany was clear about the reality. The questions about clothing and abortion were irrelevant and hostile. We really expect more from a programme about women’s concerns, but sadly this one continually disappoints.
incidently Nuala very nearly introduced the feminist on the item about Gisele Pelicot, as supporting Domin…… Pelicot. She is much more interested in men, to be sure.

Well done Bethany and thank so much for standing up and speaking out. You handled that hostile interview graciously, made your points calmly and clearly and demonstrated fantastic courage!

I've finally had chance to listen to the whole interview, not just the bits on X, and I thought Bethany handled it superbly well. She was clear, calm, always to the point and refused to be ruffled by some of the sharper questioning, including about her own faith. I've just seen on X that she was a longtime UNISON shop steward until she resigned and it shows.

I've never before heard Nuala McGovern as I'm no longer a listener to WH and I can't say I warmed to her, but I thought she was very fair in the way she let Bethany finish her answers, even though I disagreed with the phrasing of many of her questions. Other presenters and interviewers please take note.

I think she let Bethany finish her points because she herself could not argue with them in any way!

I'd have to listen to her doing other interviews before I could answer that. Having been driven almost to screaming point by the way some many interviewers never let people finish a sentence, let alone an entire answer, it was helpful not to have that happen here.

Have name changed for this.

Totally agree with this point around religious beliefs being protected. I am an atheist and GC, but have noticed that many people who criticise those with GC beliefs in the name of inclusion and equality, are similarly happy to criticise people's religious beliefs. I have a good friend who is very senior in D&I who regularly makes snarky comments about people with religious beliefs, in particular Christians, but then is falling over herself to speak up where promotion of the TQ+ is concerned...

It's a bit like animal farm isn't it? All EA characteristics are equal, but...