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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
DeanElderberry · 08/11/2024 12:19

Fascinating that they could recover DNA, and very interesting that a lot of them were from the eastern Mediterranean. Other conclusions, beyond that terrified humans, seeing death rushing towards them seconds away, grab each other - dunno.

I was also very interested that machine-reading the scrolls is having some success.

lcakethereforeIam · 08/11/2024 12:20

Man holding child! Never happens. He...sorry...she must have been trans.

There are some things that time has so distanced that it blurs the fact that these were people, they become history a dry subject for dissertations and museum exhibits. Then something reminds you of their humanity, the fear and helplessness they must have felt for themselves and their children. Something like this. Although I think at Pompeii it was never that difficult to see it. I hope it was quick.

Chersfrozenface · 08/11/2024 12:23

Man holding child - to whom he was not related.

My bet is on a slave, ordered by the family to carry the child. Remember that over 30% of the population of Pompeii were slaves.

DeanElderberry · 08/11/2024 12:54

Or well to do man, already-escape wife's bracelet picked up slipped on his wrist because he'll need some assets and has no pockets, meets a house slave who asks him to help rescue the children of two other house slaves while they all get out.

There are a gazillion potential explanations.

DeanElderberry · 08/11/2024 12:59

All those easterners though, nine years after the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem. Thought provoking.

Chersfrozenface · 08/11/2024 13:49

The Romans had their own ethnic stereotypes and believed that Asiatic Greeks, Jews, and Syrians were by nature more susceptible to living as slaves. Asia Minor was a huge source of slaves.

YesterdaysFuture · 08/11/2024 13:53

Chersfrozenface · 08/11/2024 12:23

Man holding child - to whom he was not related.

My bet is on a slave, ordered by the family to carry the child. Remember that over 30% of the population of Pompeii were slaves.

Or he thought the child was his, but his wife had an affair.

Catiette · 08/11/2024 14:04

I find it remarkable that assumptions about sex would be made largely on the basis of relative positions. I'm inclined to think this is more likely to be another case of the media massively over-simplifying and misrepresenting researchers' conclusions (and that there are a lot of archeologists out there screaming "No, that wasn't it at all!" at this article). I mean, as PP say, the possibilities in this context - terror, desperation, a mad rush for shelter and last-minute comfort, amidst utter chaos - are surely limitless!

quantumbutterfly · 08/11/2024 14:44

Pompeii is an incredible place to visit. Amazing and heartbreaking.

Snowypeaks · 09/11/2024 01:56

A propos of sex misassignment of ancient human remains, DNA testing of skeletons in graves of Steppe peoples from c2500 ago have shown that many of the warriors previously assumed to be male were in fact female. Up to 30% of them, depending on the site, iirc.

SerendipityJane · 09/11/2024 10:40

Snowypeaks · 09/11/2024 01:56

A propos of sex misassignment of ancient human remains, DNA testing of skeletons in graves of Steppe peoples from c2500 ago have shown that many of the warriors previously assumed to be male were in fact female. Up to 30% of them, depending on the site, iirc.

Evolution - biological and social - is all about efficiency. The species and tribe that make the most from the least are best placed to move forwards.

You can't afford to dismiss resources no matter where they come from.

OP posts:
MarieDeGournay · 09/11/2024 11:51

I'll cling to the interpretation that a man with a golden bracelet saw a frightened child and tried to shield it from the horrors to come, and I'm just glad the little mite didn't died alone.
Sorry, I know that's soppy, but it's as good an interpretation as any, and I'll willingly grasp at any straws of past kindness and humanity that archaeology throws up.
Like the Downs baby from 4,000 years ago who was loved and nurtured in his short life, and buried with great care and ceremony at Poll na Brón/ Poulnabrone Dolmen in Co. Clare
Ancient Bones Offer Clues To How Long Ago Humans Cared For The Vulnerable | KPBS Public Media
Smile

Read it before the gender woo brigade interpret it for us
SerendipityJane · 09/11/2024 12:05

MarieDeGournay · 09/11/2024 11:51

I'll cling to the interpretation that a man with a golden bracelet saw a frightened child and tried to shield it from the horrors to come, and I'm just glad the little mite didn't died alone.
Sorry, I know that's soppy, but it's as good an interpretation as any, and I'll willingly grasp at any straws of past kindness and humanity that archaeology throws up.
Like the Downs baby from 4,000 years ago who was loved and nurtured in his short life, and buried with great care and ceremony at Poll na Brón/ Poulnabrone Dolmen in Co. Clare
Ancient Bones Offer Clues To How Long Ago Humans Cared For The Vulnerable | KPBS Public Media
Smile

There are probably any number of entirely plausible scenarios. I don't feel inclined to pick any one.

The takeaway message detested by many historians and their camp followers is that all the Roman Empire was clearly multi ethnic to a degree would wouldn't see in Europe until the 19th century. What part that - and slavery - played in the dominance of Rome is an interesting debate.

OP posts:
DeanElderberry · 09/11/2024 12:09

I've never met an historian who would detest (or be remotely surprised to read, they already know) the fact that the Roman Empire was multi ethnic.

And I've met lots of historians.

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