Sex, gender, and data. House of Lords debate

[ArabellaScott]

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2024-11-05/debates/B0AA483D-8DCF-431C-BD5C-105F152FCED7/SexAndGenderOfficialData#contribution-3097FA91-5F32-4205-9A4B-8A868018AC27

Question from Baroness Fox lead to a ten minute discussion in which gov spokesperson on Equalities failed to offer a definition of 'gender identity'.

'The Government Statistical Service will publish a work plan for updated, harmonised standards and guidance on sex and gender in December this year. This will align with the Office for National Statistics regulation guidance on collecting and reporting data about sex and gender identity, which was published in February.'

But didn't Baroness Smith say the glorious words Adult Human Female?

She did.

'It is important that we have clarity about the measures being used in order to ensure that services are appropriate to people. That is the objective of the work plan that will be set out in December, which will have engagement around it, so that we can be clear about the measures and the definitions not just in the census but for the broad range of public authorities, including in the criminal justice system, that need to use them as well.'

She mentioned the report will have implications for the NHS as well as prisons. Is this the gov quietly proposing a definition of 'what a woman is' at last?

Baroness Smith:

'A woman is an adult female, and her biological sex may well determine what services she needs from the NHS. That is why it is important that, in statistics that are used both in the census and more broadly by our public services, we have a consistent and an agreed approach to that .'

I wish I could be a fly on the wall as captured government departments / quangos try and define 'gender identity' and also 'women', 'men' and 'sex' within the cult belief system. If it wasn't going to be such a waste of taxpayers money that could be avoided by a brief read of FWR (as the women here have already solved this in the only way that is meaningful in terms of logical consistency or reality many times) then it would be entertaining.

Just in case they're reading. Woman = adult human female. I've just potentially saved the government hundreds of thousands of pounds!!!

This will align with the Office for National Statistics regulation guidance on collecting and reporting data about sex and gender identity, which was published in February.

Promising. That guidance wasn't bad - and specifically said terms must be defined.

Baroness Ludford
(LD)

The previous Government commissioned an independent review, led by Professor Alice Sullivan of University College London, a statistics expert, to look at problems exemplified by the census fiasco and set out good practice on how to collect data. This review by Professor Sullivan was due to report back in August. Will the Government publish the Sullivan review and their response?

Baroness Smith of Malvern
(Lab)

The first part of the review has been received by the Government, who are currently considering it. I undertake to come back to this House with a response to that.

From Hansard - my bolding for emphasis:

Baroness Smith of Malvern
(Lab)
[...] it is important that we have accurate and respected statistics, but that we are also providing services to people on the basis of their needs, particularly for LGBT+ people, and that they are safe, included and protected from discrimination.

Why 'particularly'? Shouldn't everyone have services provided on the basis of need?

Hopefully they will use the definitions that are written in the draft Gender Questioning Children guidance.

Personally, I think they could drop the sentence that gender identity "is a contested belief". All beliefs are contested... by those that don't hold them e.g. Christianity is contesed by Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus and atheists. It's an unnecessarily emotive sentence when the rest of the definition achieves the same thing.

Other than that minor point, the other definitions in the document are also useful.

A pdf of the document is linked on here:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/equalities-political-impartiality-anti-bullying-team/gender-questioning-children-proposed-guidance/

I’m pleased to see this being discussed.

Though one LD member still not getting why people think this stuff is important “I hope the Minister will acknowledge that—given the downgraded English figures, which gave the trans and non-binary population as 0.55%, and given that the figure we found for Scottish, Welsh, Canadian, USA and GB patients is 0.44%—we can conclude that the English census figures are not a million miles out and that the actual number of people in question is tiny in proportion to the amount of time we spend talking about them. Can we not, instead, use these figures to help design services appropriately for them, and move on?”

Missing the fact that roughly 100% of the populace are affected by their biological sex.

Exactly

Posting in haste so mind a bit blank:

This will align with the Office for National Statistics regulation guidance on collecting and reporting data about sex and gender identity, which was published in February.

I thought the agreed concept know was the the collecting of this information had faild in the Census and that a clearer or agreed method had not yet been accepted.

Guidance is one thing.

But has it been shown to work in practice?

Is this a small step returning to facts and common sense?
Especially after the ONS repeatedly beclowned themselves over the census data?

https://osr.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/our-work-on-data-about-sex-and-gender-identity/

Guidance:

https://osr.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/publication/collecting-and-reporting-data-about-sex-and-gender-identity-in-official-statistics-a-guide-for-official-statistics-producers/

'Currently there is no single definition of sex or gender identity within the official statistics community. We also recognise that respondents and users may have differing interpretations of these terms. Given this, it is vital that producers clearly define and explain any terminology that they are using. It is the responsibility of statistics producers, rather than OSR, to decide on and explain the definitions used within any data collections and statistical outputs.

This guidance does not set out harmonised standards for sex or gender identity definitions, as this is not within our remit as a regulator. We have, however, looked at how sex and gender identity have been defined within guidance published by other organisations. To provide a framework for using this guidance we have set out our interpretation of these terms. We recognise that there will be differences in how familiar people are with the terms, that some people may prefer to use alternative terms than those set out below and that some people may feel that certain terms do not apply to them.

When we use the term ‘sex’ in this guidance, we are referring to a binary variable categorised as female or male. In the UK, an individual’s legal sex is recorded at birth based on their biological characteristics. Individuals over the age of 18 can apply for a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) which enables them to change their legally recognised sex, including on their birth certificate. Where an individual has a GRC, their legally recognised sex may differ from their sex recorded at birth.

When we use the term ‘gender’ in this guidance, we are referring to the socially constructed characteristics and behaviours of men, women, boys and girls. The concept of gender is not fixed and can vary from society to society and can change over time. We acknowledge that there are different interpretations of ‘gender’ and that the history of this term is complex. In addition, within official statistics data collections, the term ‘gender’ has often been used interchangeably with ‘sex’.'
When we use the term ‘gender identity’ in this guidance, we are referring to an individual’s innate sense of their gender. Gender identity is not constrained to the binary male and female categories and includes others such as non-binary and gender fluid. For some individuals their gender identity may be different from their sex recorded at birth, and/or from their legally recognised sex.'

That's saying a GRC changes sex, isn't it.

It's the bloody sex fudge again.

Changes 'legal' sex, which then elides into just sex. The war of words.

I thought about that when I read the thread about Billy the Non-Binary Butterfly, which led to this gem from the Scouts:

What other ways can we make a change in how we speak to make our language more gender-neutral?
For example, using ‘sibling’ rather than ‘brother or sister’, ‘everyone’ instead of ‘ladies and gentlemen’ or ‘boys and girls’. You could use ‘parent’, ‘carer’ or ‘grown up’ rather than ‘Mum and Dad’. Why’s it important to make sure we use inclusive language?

Frankly, I feel kids being propagandised with stuff like this is quite chilling. Let's do away with devalue Mum and Dad, eh?

I had that once. It was awfully sticky.

Why do they seem so terribly keen on changing natural language use that has been with us for thousands of years - all languages have terms for parents and kin structure that have evolved over time and natural use. Why are the Boy Scouts now determined to get children to say things like ‘parent’ instead of Mum or Dad? It’s giving me Clockwork Orange and 1984 vibes to be quite honest.