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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

M&S calls young girls 'things'

147 replies

lcakethereforeIam · 03/11/2024 18:20

This isn't just any misogyny, this is...

https://archive.ph/6XLUT

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/03/ms-trans-row-advertising-girls-first-bras-for-young-things/

Eta link

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 04/11/2024 13:29

anniegun · 04/11/2024 12:49

Cuture war nonsense from the usual suspects in the Telegraph. Do we have to start a campaign against PrettyLittleThing because we are all so offended?

Is their target demographic 9-11 years old?

Iamiams · 04/11/2024 13:35

HonestPayforHonestWork · 04/11/2024 13:08

Thing is definitely referring to the wearer of the clothes.

I don’t think it is. They started out as selling women’s accessories, then later clothes. It’s the kind of comment people would make about a piece of jewellery or accessory.

PollyPeachum · 04/11/2024 13:37

All the 'bright young things' bounding through the French Windows asking "Anyone for tennis"?
I know Rattigan is being rediscovered but not by young teens. Get Real!!

RufustheFactuaIReindeer · 04/11/2024 13:43

HonestPayforHonestWork · 04/11/2024 13:08

Thing is definitely referring to the wearer of the clothes.

Everyone is saying they ‘think’ it is the clothes they are referring to

you seem very positive that they are referring to the people that buy the clothes, how are you so sure?

lcakethereforeIam · 04/11/2024 14:04

While my bras are definitely supportive, I've never thought to describe them as 'fearless'...or, more recently, 'young'.

OP posts:
Iamiams · 04/11/2024 14:07

@lcakethereforeIam I think there’s 2 different conversations going on now 😁
the ‘thing’ in Pretty Little Thing I think is to do with its origins as an accessory shop.

lcakethereforeIam · 04/11/2024 14:10

We should probably have a flow chart 😁

OP posts:
Iamiams · 04/11/2024 14:18

There’s of course the other Thing….

M&S calls young girls 'things'
NeverDropYourMooncup · 04/11/2024 15:11

Despite all the references to stuff written about adults a hundred years ago with all the sexism and gendered assumptions of the times, I don't think many older (ie, not barely pubescent) people who are considering or in the process of Gender Reassignment would be particularly keen on being referred to as 'Things'.

'Could you help this customer, please? They have asked if we've got these in size 15' sounds far more reasonable than 'Could you help this Thing?' or 'The Thing out by the long boots wants to know if the brown ones go up to size 15'. 'There's a bunch of Things on table 9 wanting to place their order', 'Such a Brave and Fearless Thing to wear that amazing outfit?'

Completelyjo · 04/11/2024 15:17

Some people on here are just professionally offended.

HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott · 04/11/2024 15:27

See, I'm not really offended. I don't think it bothers me in isolation much at all, but you can see it as a minor symptom of several intertwined issues, all of which are possibly damaging for girls. And that is ... wearying.

PassCaring · 04/11/2024 15:28

If the ad executives had any onuce insight they wouldn't have been as ambiguous with the meaning of the ad.

TWETMIRF · 04/11/2024 15:55

AncientBallerina · 03/11/2024 19:17

International Bright Young Things! Brings me back to the 90s. It doesn’t feel like an attempt to be gender neutral, more kind of whimsical. Gender neutral phrases are usually hideously convoluted and decidedly unwhimsical. Partner with eggs, person who menstruates etc. Human being who may or may not grow mammaries.

I read your comment this morning and that song has been in my head ever since

StMarieforme · 04/11/2024 16:33

Also, it could work the other way. A biological girl may want to identify as a boy. Would still need a bra.
It's not just about 'confused boys'
But I agree with the Bright Young Things analogy.

RoyalCorgi · 04/11/2024 16:59

I think Datun is right in terms of the thinking around this. The problem with the slogan, if anything, is that it buys into this narrative about girls being strong and powerful (the kind of vacuous "girl power" that the Spice Girls promoted) while being nothing at all to do with wearing bras. But that is a problem with marketing in general and marketing aimed at girls/women in particular. They're never going to put out a slogan that says: "Buy our bras because they are comfortable, pretty and reasonably-priced", which to my mind are the three things you're looking for in a bra.

boulevardofbrokendreamss · 04/11/2024 17:41

They have taken them down now and admitted 'they were off this time'

Datun · 04/11/2024 17:44

boulevardofbrokendreamss · 04/11/2024 17:41

They have taken them down now and admitted 'they were off this time'

I'd love them to explain the thinking. If they now agree they were off, why did they think they were on?

AliasGrape · 05/11/2024 11:28

RoyalCorgi · 04/11/2024 09:16

I'm starting to wonder if there are people on this thread who aren't native English speakers. As a few PPs have pointed out, "thing" is commonly used to mean "person" as in "you poor thing" (which I say all the time), or "dear little thing" or whatever. Are there seriously people on here who haven't heard this usage?

It reminds me of the time Munroe Bergdorf got angry at being described by Emma Nicholson as a "strange creature", apparently oblivious to the widespread use of "creature" to mean "person".

Both of your examples are pretty patronising, maybe not 'poor thing' so much though implies the person being addressed is to be pitied in some way, 'dear little thing' super patronising and could only be used by a (pretty middle class) adult talking about someone much younger, probably a toddler or perhaps a pet of some sort.

Even adding 'fearless' doesn't make it better, it still reads patronising (or possibly creepy) to me - 'my, you're a fearless little thing aren't you?' And I agree with others that fearless doesn't really make sense in this context - what about these 'first bras' requires their wearer to be fearless?

I really can't conceive of 'thing' being used in the same way in a campaign aimed at preteen/ teenage boys - except maybe if it was something like 'wild things' perhaps - that feels fairly consistent with how we label boys - but I still wouldn't expect it for this age group, more for younger boys.

Whether it was an attempt to be 'gender inclusive' or not I don't know - probably played a part. But I wouldn't have had an issue with 'fearless young people'.

I'm not professionally offended, I'm not going to boycott M&S or anything, it's more of a sigh and a 'this again' feeling - it's the same feeling as all the 'be kind' and 'rainbows and snuggles' slogan t-shirts aimed at younger girls give me.

lcakethereforeIam · 05/11/2024 11:44

I'm not professionally offended, it's more of a hobby😁 There's an article about it in the Times

https://archive.ph/1zziE fearlessly taking you past the paywally thing

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/society/article/marks-and-spencer-apologises-teenage-girl-bra-advert-9t6rgxkqx

Doesn't add much but thought it would be rude to ignore it.

M&S have form in this area so, even if gi never crossed their minds when devising this, I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt. Experience has shown with this ideology that if you give them an inch they'll take your sex based rights and the language you used to use to talk about yourself.

I do wish they'd photoshopped Father Ted somewhere in the background of the lingerie department picture.

M&S under fire for first bras aimed at ‘young things’, not girls

The retailer withdrew the posters advertising the underwear from stores and apologised, but gender-critical campaigners say M&S is pandering to the trans lobby

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/society/article/marks-and-spencer-apologises-teenage-girl-bra-advert-9t6rgxkqx

OP posts:
lcakethereforeIam · 05/11/2024 12:02

Sorry, just reread my post. To clarify the article in the Times is about the M&S snafu, not about how I spend my free time. Although, for a suitable fee....

OP posts:
ReadWithScepticism · 05/11/2024 13:41

Mention of Father Ted reminded me of Graham Linehan's brilliant Dragon's Den bra marketing in the IT Crowd. He gets the word 'woman' in an admirable number of times.

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Sortumn · 05/11/2024 16:23

I showed the advert to my 15 y/o daughter. "That's cringe!". Apparently it doesn't bother her but makes her think of something a creepy uncle would say. (She doesn't have a creepy uncle).

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