German Gender Self-Determination Act

[TheywontletmehavethenameIwant]

Rocking the Reichstag | Josephine Bartosch | The Critic Magazine

"Feminists have not taken the news lying down. With impressive — and somewhat stereotypical — efficiency, a group of German women co-ordinated protests which were held yesterday outside embassies in nearly fifty countries. From Taipei to Washington protestors travelled often hundreds of miles to show solidarity and send a message to their own governments, many of which are considering similar gender self-identification laws."

We're going to have to fight the whole damn world!

No. We will all just get old and die with the world moving on. In 1000 years from now, on historians will be interested.

And the archaeologists will still know which bones were women.

A snapshot of opinion from the centrist/liberal newspaper I'm reading this morning:

How do you rate the new self-determination act which from 1 Nov 2024 makes it possible to change your name and gender entry by submitting a declaration to the registry office?
Clearly right 13.3%
Somewhat right 6.5%
Undecided 11.1%
Somewhat wrong 5.3%
Clearly wrong 63.8%

Wie bewerten Sie das neue Selbstbestimmungsgesetz, das es ab dem 01.11.2024 ermöglicht, mittels einer Erklärung beim Standesamt Namen und Geschlechtseintrag ändern zu lassen?
Eindeutig richtig 13,3%
Eher richtig 6,5%
Unentschieden 11,1%
Eher falsch 5,3%
Eindeutig falsch 63,8%

It’s astonishing how such laws are still being brought in, despite the vast majority of people believing they’re inappropriate.

Does anyone remember whether genuine human rights causes were brought into law in the past, without gaining at least a degree of consensus with the wider population? I have the feeling that gay marriage, for example (and its precursor, civil partnership) were not brought in until it was widely considered it was unreasonable not to do so.

The power behind this monstrous regime continues to shock, but perhaps I’m wrong and governments have previously brought in laws that the majority objected to, but were persuaded afterwards.

Apologies for my ignorance. I hope there are others here with more knowledge of previous civil rights movements.

Which one is that BigFrau?

It's the Dentons' strategy.

This article in the Spectator is informative:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/

A major international law firm has helped write a lobbying manual for people who want to change the law to prevent parents having the final say about significant changes in the status of their own children. That manual advises those lobbying for that change to hide their plans behind a ‘veil’ and to make sure that neither the media nor the wider public know much about the changes affecting children that they are seeking to make. Because if the public find out about those changes, they might well object to them.

Archive link:
https://archive.is/6WTEr

More here:
https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-dentons-document

Just found a link to the original Dentons document.
https://gendercriticalwoman.blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/iglyo_v3-1-2.pdf

I imagine the public view of such a law would elicit similar responses in most European countries, including the UK. Doesn't seem to stop them, though.

I'm not sure what happened in Germany, but in some countries these laws have been brought in to keep either factions within the governing party, or minor coalition partners, on board with other stuff. The smaller a group/party is, the more likely it is to be particularly concerned with a single issue.

Certainly this is what happened in Spain, where the main centre-left party is only able to govern because of its coalition with various Corbyn-like groups, some of which insisted on a trans-rights bill as part of that. They also insisted that the government brought in a poorly-drafted bill about sexual violence, which immediately resulted in lots of rapists being released from prison. (But it wouldn't help much to shift the other way, as the centre-right party would need to be propped up by a far-right party that wants the country to keep statues of Franco and doesn't think that domestic violence is a big problem.)

Germany has a three party coalition, which is a tad unusual. It also took over two months to form a government, again a bit unusual.
The SPD (equivalent to Labour) were the strongest party in the election, followed by the CDU, the Greens and the FDP (Liberals).
The CDU and the SPD had formed a government before, but would not have had a majority, plus they did not get along towards the end of the last period.

IIRC, both the Greens and the Liberals had it on their manifesto to put in place some sort of Self-ID law. I think that there was also a case in front of Germany's highest court that the previous version was not fit for purpose anymore and had to be change.
But with that new law? God help us all (and I'm agnostic).
Anyone can now go to the registry office and declare themselves to be "another gender", and if they so want they can do this once a year. And you are not allowed to refer to their previous identity if it's detrimental for them. So leaves a lot of scope for abusing the law.

For example: The swimming club I'm a member of, requires anyone who teaches or coaches children to have the equivalent of a DBS check. That now could be a falsified record and open to abuse.

The government left so many loopholes in there, it's incredible (and not the goods kind of incredible). One could almost think that was on purpose.

The opportunity to get round the DBS system, alone, is a good enough reason why people should never be able to change their sex (sic) on official documents. In any country.

And the way I understand the law is the following:

Former prisoner John who was convicted for CSA declares himself to be "Jane", does all the paperwork and then wants to work/volunteer with children, say at a sports club. The DBS will say nothing to declare, as it will be for Jane.
If I now knew of John's crimes, made them and his previous name known to the club, I would be the one fined, because I used their previous identity "to their detriment".

It is utterly and completely nuts.

Tagesspiegel, in the "Queer" section (they do love that word)

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/queerspiegel/selbstbestimmungsgesetz-tritt-in-kraft-wichtiger-tag-fur-eine-offene-gesellschaft-12623012.html

👆Just to add to the above: many of the comments remind me of where the discussion on this issue was in the UK a few years ago. And yet legislation has been passed even though the discussion is not as advanced (as in the UK) and many people don't even know about it.

Not surprised that the TAZ has a "Queer-Section" but very surprised they published the results of this survey.

It's not the taz it's Tagesspiegel, but whichever, yes I am surprised too!
The survey looks like something inserted into the page by a market research organisation rather than something by the paper itself.

I was also surprised this article is free to read, as opposed to the increasing number that you have to pay to read.

This isn't a civil rights movement. It's a movement driven by, and for, middle-aged men, who are typically the most powerful people in society.

Civil rights movements which were for the benefit of groups of people who had historically been disadvantaged were driven by grassroots movements composed of those people.

The people who benefit from this movement are not disadvantaged. It's being driven from the top, for the benefit of the already privileged. This is why it's being pushed through in this way, while many citizens of the countries affected are totally unaware of what's happening. They can do this because they already have power.

The middle-aged men driving this have portrayed themselves as a downtrodden and disadvantaged minority in order to get the sympathy of others who have the power to change laws. They have been largely successful, not least because they have recruited truly vulnerable groups, including children, to help them in their cause. They couldn't have got this far without the myth of the 'transgender child' and large numbers of girls and young women identifying as nonbinary or trans.

This sounds very much like what happened in Ireland in 2015. It was quietly pushed through without most of the population realising it had even happened. Exactly as described in the Dentons manual that I mentioned earlier in the thread.

What has now happened in Germany has already happened in a very similar way in a number of smaller countries. Apart from Ireland, there are similar laws in Norway and Denmark, and now Spain, where the problems are already becoming apparent.

There have been observations on this thread about how coalition governments in Germany and Spain were part of the reason for these laws being passed, and the same thing happened in Scotland. I think the question we really need to be asking is why the left-wing parties have become so captured by this ideology. There is nothing left wing about the individualism of trans identification.

interesting theory about the poor drafting
it would indeed provide a useful get out strategy

what's that you say? people with ill intent are exploiting this noble law? and causing harm to innocent people? dear me, this will never do- we will have to find a way to stop this...maybe we should repeal this law and set up a commission to look into this complex area...maybe they could report back in...I don't know, ten years (it is SO complex)

if ONLY someone had warned us of these unforseen consequences