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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

All employers should take steps to make sure gender reassignment discrimination does not happen at work - ACAS guidelines

20 replies

IwantToRetire · 30/10/2024 17:26

As an employer, you should:

  • aim for a culture where everyone knows that gender reassignment discrimination and transphobia are not acceptable
  • recognise and promote the benefits of a diverse and inclusive organisation

Measures that are specific to preventing gender reassignment discrimination include:

  • supporting an employee who is transitioning
  • having a transitioning at work policy
  • considering things that particularly affect transgender employees
  • reviewing any policies on absence or appointments
  • appointing an LGBT+ champion
  • setting up a staff LGBT+ network

Have not read the document in full, but given that issues about the conflicting rights of gender identity and gender critical beliefs in workplaces, thought this would be of interest.

ie ACAS is sometimes called in as opposed to taking legal action.

https://www.acas.org.uk/gender-reassignment-discrimination/preventing-discrimination

Preventing discrimination - Gender reassignment discrimination - Acas

What employers should do to make sure gender reassignment discrimination does not happen at work.

https://www.acas.org.uk/gender-reassignment-discrimination/preventing-discrimination

OP posts:
Msmoonpie · 30/10/2024 17:39

“Some employees might feel uncomfortable about using someone's new pronouns. As an employer, you cannot force an employee to use someone's new pronouns. However, you can expect them not to use the old pronouns.”

Is that true ? Can you force someone to refer to them either as their new pronouns or a neutral term ?

Personally I would be happy with a neutral term but some may consider this to be against their beliefs ?

FrippEnos · 30/10/2024 17:52

Has it been explained fully when gender re-assignment starts?

DoreenonTill8 · 30/10/2024 17:55

Some employees might feel uncomfortable about using someone's new pronouns. As an employer, you cannot force an employee to use someone's new pronouns. However, you can expect them not to use the old pronouns.”
And are they going to have it officially stated what the official way of this would be? You know, approval and all...

BlueRaincoat1 · 30/10/2024 18:03

Msmoonpie · 30/10/2024 17:39

“Some employees might feel uncomfortable about using someone's new pronouns. As an employer, you cannot force an employee to use someone's new pronouns. However, you can expect them not to use the old pronouns.”

Is that true ? Can you force someone to refer to them either as their new pronouns or a neutral term ?

Personally I would be happy with a neutral term but some may consider this to be against their beliefs ?

Edited

I think it's not about forcing, but acknowledging that deliberately and purposefully using pronouns that are no longer preferred, may constitute harassment under the Equality Act

I think it's really good that it is acknowledged that you can't force a person to use preferred pronouns though

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/10/2024 18:11

I think it's really good that it is acknowledged that you can't force a person to use preferred pronouns though

It is. Not seen that in black and white before.

Helleofabore · 30/10/2024 18:20

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/10/2024 18:11

I think it's really good that it is acknowledged that you can't force a person to use preferred pronouns though

It is. Not seen that in black and white before.

Yes, well done ACAS for that at least.

PriOn1 · 30/10/2024 18:23

“aim for a culture where everyone knows that gender reassignment discrimination and transphobia are not acceptable”

Oh look. They can’t stick to adherence to the Equality Act. They have to shove the T word in there. Extremism is now so common that it passes as normality.

JellySaurus · 30/10/2024 18:32

aim for a culture where everyone knows that gender reassignment discrimination and transphobia are not acceptable...
...supporting an employee who is transitioning

I wonder how many employers are going to interpret that as making it clear that other male staff may not mock or threaten transwmen as they continue to use the men's toilets (now relabelled Male Toilets).

I shan't hold my breath.

Justme56 · 30/10/2024 18:33

It’s interesting that they add things like time off for hair removal. However, the need for removal of hair could easily apply for women with pcos, menopausal women, in fact anyone with excess hair growth which makes them feel embarrassed. I’d hope that they too would receive the same benefits.

IwantToRetire · 30/10/2024 18:50

Just seen this, which may have been posted on the nurses thread but shows how few employers understand.
https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/nhs-england-training-calls-staff-transphobic-if-they-wont-share-toilets-with-the-opposite-sex/

NHS England training calls staff “transphobic” if they won’t share toilets with the opposite sex - Sex Matters

Sex Matters has written to Amanda Pritchard, the chief executive of NHS England, to raise concerns about NHSE’s “mandatory and statutory” training on “Equality, Diversity, Inclusion and Human Rights Skills”. The training is required for all its 6,500 s...

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/nhs-england-training-calls-staff-transphobic-if-they-wont-share-toilets-with-the-opposite-sex

OP posts:
Hoardasurass · 30/10/2024 18:54

Msmoonpie · 30/10/2024 17:39

“Some employees might feel uncomfortable about using someone's new pronouns. As an employer, you cannot force an employee to use someone's new pronouns. However, you can expect them not to use the old pronouns.”

Is that true ? Can you force someone to refer to them either as their new pronouns or a neutral term ?

Personally I would be happy with a neutral term but some may consider this to be against their beliefs ?

Edited

The choice is to use the new pronouns or there name when talking to or about them at work, insisting on referring to freda (formally fred) as he/him where his sex is not relevant would be bullying in the same way as someone constantly referring to you as cis when you've asked them not to would be. It's a fine line for employer's and employees to walk

ReadWithScepticism · 30/10/2024 18:55

I think the best way to assess this document might be to compare it with the similar document about preventing sex discrimination (https://www.acas.org.uk/sex-discrimination/preventing-sex-discrimination ) .
On the basis of a skim read i think that ACAS have approached the two different protected characteristics in a comparable way that indicates equality of concern and could provide a framework for employers to weigh any conflicts of rights that might arise in the course of making adjustments relating to gender reassignment. (It doesn't of course provide any details about managing those conflicts, but there are various suggestions that it does make that could be leveraged to require employers to deal appropriately with women's concerns)

Preventing sex discrimination - Sex discrimination - Acas

What employers should do to make sure sex discrimination does not happen at work.

https://www.acas.org.uk/sex-discrimination/preventing-sex-discrimination

PatatiPatatras · 30/10/2024 23:23

Just picking up on the toilets and changing room part of this new culture to embed.

Men make trans identified individual feel uncomfortable in toilets at work- not discrimination.

Women make trans identified individual feel uncomfortable in toilets at work - discrimination.

I want to watch this play out🍿

Bannedontherun · 31/10/2024 10:22

OMG what load of unbelievably immature, unprofessional tosh this training is.

IwantToRetire · 31/10/2024 17:04

Bannedontherun · 31/10/2024 10:22

OMG what load of unbelievably immature, unprofessional tosh this training is.

This isn't training. This is ACAS saying this is what you should do as an employer. So if there is an employment issue in your work place over trans rights and we are brought in to resolve / arbitrate the issue, this is the basis on which we will decide who is in the right.

OP posts:
JazzyJelly · 31/10/2024 17:36

As an aside on using preferred pronouns at work, we had a very well-meaning person recently explaining that a new hire was non-binary 'so whenever you talk to her or about her, use 'they' or 'them''.

Bannedontherun · 31/10/2024 19:20

@JazzyJelly 😂😂😂

Lokipoki · 31/10/2024 19:27

JazzyJelly · 31/10/2024 17:36

As an aside on using preferred pronouns at work, we had a very well-meaning person recently explaining that a new hire was non-binary 'so whenever you talk to her or about her, use 'they' or 'them''.

Hopefully someone said ‘sorry, who?’ Hearing them repeat it would be comedy gold.

TheDearOtter · 11/11/2024 16:55

If you still pee through your male gentials - you do not belong in the ladies loos.
I will try my best to use your "prefered pronouns" but honestly - theres a time and place - and its not at work -

MelodyMalone · 11/11/2024 19:54

JazzyJelly · 31/10/2024 17:36

As an aside on using preferred pronouns at work, we had a very well-meaning person recently explaining that a new hire was non-binary 'so whenever you talk to her or about her, use 'they' or 'them''.

My very "woke" daughter finds it incredibly hard to stick to they/them for the non-binary person she knows - constantly stumbling over "she.... I mean they..."

When a person looks female and has a female name it's pretty difficult to not say she!

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