Should I raise this with DS

[Partridgewell]

Hi all,

Would very much appreciate your wisdom here. I have a DS who has just turned 11. He's always been gender non-conforming. Likes to wear brightly-coloured clothes, often from the girls' section, likes to have his nails painted, enjoys dance and musical theatre. However, he has never, ever expressed that he feels born in the wrong body, or that he is female, he just likes typically girly stuff.

This is all absolutely fine by me, just to be clear. His elder brother is gay (although is very conformist in terms of his clothing and interests). What worries me is, as he grows up and moves up in secondary school, I fear he might be targeted by followers or the gender woo. He is being assessed for ASD (big brother is diagnosed) and I know that gender non-conforming kids with ASD make up a huge number of trans-identified children.

My dilemma is this. Do I talk to him about this stuff now? By which I mean, say to him that it's absolutely fine to like what he likes, but he's male, and he'll soon be going through male puberty and that he'll always be male? Or shall I just leave well alone, in case it's not on his radar yet? He has access to YouTube kids, but not Tiktok, X, Snapchat or Instagram. Would appreciate any thoughts or resources.

I disagree. It is homophobic, sexist adults projecting their own ideas about sex stereotypes on children who then spread them to their peers.

Those adults might be teachers, youth group leaders, or via the internet. Some with the best intentions. Sadly some with nefarious intentions due to the insistence of so called allies that people declaring trans identities don't deserve or require the usual safeguarding protocols.

If there was no homophobia, sexism or misogyny in society, very very few people would need to be trans.

I'd not address it directly in case I made him feel self conscious. Just keep reinforcing that you are who you are and there is no such thing as girls stuff or boys stuff and either sex can do anything or love/fancy anyone. If it comes up I'd also say there is no such thing as feeling like a girl/boy when you aren't. You are born as you are, you are born as you were meant to be and however he feels, that is what a being boy feels like.

I mean this idea that gender non - conforming children, especially autistic ones, aren't being led to believe that they are trans by others is complete nonsense.

It's not only schools/ peers who are doing this. CAMHS asked my daughter if she thought she was a boy too, she didn't, this was because she had the wrong hair cut and clothes! She hasn't been in school since primary for sen reasons, that's been a massive relief to me as she would definitely have been vulnerable to social contagions. Now post puberty she is definitely more comfortable in her own skin and has started to wear more girl cut clothes, grow her hair. Thank goodness she wasn't convinced she was a boy or non binary.

Some of the posts on here are clearly from people who've never had a brush with these things.

It is not transphobic to tell your children they can wear what they want but it doesn't make them the opposite sex.

Yes exactly that.

They watch a presentation all about sex stereotypes (hello Gender Unicorn and Mermaids Barbie to GI Joe sliding scale). Then they look around at who in the class doesn't conform to said sex stereotypes and start asking them if they're really a boy / girl.

Or they've been struggling to fit in / to cope with disrupted home life / whatever and the trans presentation presents them with this magical way of gaining the attention they so desperately need coupled with the tantalising ability to control their peers and adults, just as their life had been feeling out of their control.

Or they're a girl horrified by the sexual harassment and worse that puberty has ushered in and are desperate to go back to when they felt free. Or a girl who sees the fake eyelashes, tan, nails, hair, heels and thinks "that's not me!" but who looks around and sees no other way to become a woman so decides she can't be one.

One vulnerable autistic teenage girl I know got to be a lesbian for all of a term before the youth workers convinced her that she was actually non binary pansexual (because she played football obvs).

Another primary boy I know was constantly challenged by his classmates for being in the boys toilets because he had chosen sparkly shoes (non uniform school).

"You can't come in here you must be a girl" and "you're a boy you can't wear those" come from the two opposite sides of the gender coin (faux left wing post modern gender ideology Vs right wing conservative gender roles) BUT they sound the same to a 5 year old boy.

Have you looked at kid culture? It is so deeply gendered still. Primary schools are a sea of princesses and footballers with very little in between. Offering kids the binary choice between moulding their personalities to fit their sex or "changing sex" to fit their personalities is simply not good enough for a healthy society.

I don't know why some posters think this is an unusual reach on the part of the school. My son's teenage friends asked him whether my daughter identified as a boy (short hair again, sigh) and whether she was afraid to come out to us. My long haired son has similarly been asked whether he identifies as female. It's almost an assumption amongst the kids that GNC hairstyle = 'probably trans'. And some of the staff are barely beyond that stage of adolescence themselves.

My son's teenage friends asked him whether my daughter identified as a boy (short hair again, sigh) and whether she was afraid to come out to us
Ok, sorry but that sounds like it's just asking? If she's not, you'd just look incredulous, say something like "er no' and laugh.
If she is, it's not dismissing her/not believing her.

OP I worry hugely about this too.

Like you, I have allowed/ encouraged absolute free expression for my kids, never assumed future partners will be opposite sex etc. It is infuriating that by avoiding conservative gender stereotyping one leaves ones kids vulnerable to trans gender stereotyping instead. (One has to question just why gender stereotypes are so very pervasive, who does that serve etc)

I would never send my child to a school signed up to stonewall because of this. Heartbreaking that an organisation that used to be about gay representation could actively harm potentially gay children.

Be openly feminist. Be relatively frank about your own life experiences. Make sure your child doesn't see women as silent objects and servants or as "other".

I'm lucky that my kids go to school with kids from so many other cultures. Partly because trans ideology still tends to be a middle class white thing, and partly because it opens up the discussions about difference and the structural challenges that others face in society that might not immediately be apparent to a middle class white boy.

It is not transphobic to tell your children they can wear what they want but it doesn't make them the opposite sex. Absolutely this ^^

Very often ASD children/young teens are highly highly suggestible, feel different from their peers but don’t know why, and often have black and white thinking.

It is better for you to tactfully but firmly make your DS aware now that we cannot change sex whilst continuing to support and applaud his GNC behaviour. Don’t let the GI be the first ones to ‘talk’ to him on this topic. So much bs on the internet and very soon he’ll be able to circumvent parental controls.

My son is GNC and ASD, it was the school who put the trans idea in his mind and we knew no better than to take him to the doc and get a referral. Fortunately the wait was years, he didn't ask to socially transition and he grew out of it by 13.

So I think be damn sure that the school are aware he is 'just' GNC. I think you will need to raise it with him though, other kids will start to ask and he may even be pressured because it's cool to have a trans friend, my son is often asked and used to be encouraged to come out by pupils and teachers.

I'd start with general facts about the immutability of sex, determined at conception. Then maybe move into the physical advantages of men to introduce the unfairness in sport - my son is black and white on that subject but very 'be kind' on other GI subjects. Talk about regressive stereotypes and how sone people might think he's trans and how he can respectfully reply, my son just says 'im a boy, I like how I dress'.

I'd start with general facts about the immutability of sex, determined at conception. Then maybe move into the physical advantages of men to introduce the unfairness in sport - my son is black and white on that subject but very 'be kind' on other GI subjects. Talk about regressive stereotypes and how sone people might think he's trans and how he can respectfully reply, my son just says 'im a boy, I like how I dress'.

Excellent advice.

It is just asking. But the only reason for "just asking" whether this particular girl is trans is her style choices. And that means, to avoid the questions and assumptions, she would need to conform more to gendered expectations. Annoying, I think you'd agree?

Just monitor his computer usage/ phone.