I wish this woman had received advice that was more sympathetic and supportive

[Mermoose]

I read this letter in an advice column yesterday and the reply really bugged me. The woman who wrote the letter is finding it difficult to find a partner who wants an exclusive relationship and while the advice columnist gave her some advice she also, I think, gave the overall impression the woman was odd for expecting exclusivity. One reason I wanted to post it here was in the - probably vain - hope that the woman might find this and see other perspectives.

"Asking for a friend: I’m single and dating, but when I ask about being exclusive, it puts people off. When should I have that conversation?"

https://archive.is/NgxuK

It's perfectly reasonable to want an exclusive relationship. It may not be the norm any more on dating apps but it's not, as Catherine West implies, "a red flag" to expect or request this. You don't need to "reflect on your self-esteem" and try to figure out why you want exclusivity - I'd say it's a good sign that you have healthy self-esteem that you expect a relationship to be exclusive.

Dating isn't like interviewing for a job or trying out for a sports team and it's jaw-dropping that someone who styles themselves a relationship expert suggests it is. It suggests a weird ignorance of the emotional significance of relationships.

I’ve never done OLD but my friends who do say it’s a nightmare full of married men and men who just don’t want any form of relationship.

Well I'd give an entirely different reply. But mine would concern the way men are on dating sites (and in general!) and try to build up the woman's self-esteem. But I'm not an Agony Aunt!

It was unclear from the question she wrote whether she meant she’d date someone for a few weeks/months then have a conversation about becoming exclusive, or if she expected exclusivity from date 1. If the former, normal and fine. The latter is bonkers though. It’s not reasonable to agree to be exclusive with someone you don’t even know! Dating has to be fit around everything else in life. From a purely logistical level you have to talk to several people at once on apps and meet several dates in a week. It’s a numbers game - the more you meet the more you widen the net and increase the chance of finding one you like.

It’s fine to talk about expectations up front though. I’d tell everyone I met on date 1 that I wanted a serious relationship but didn’t want kids. So if she is dating with a view to marriage and kids for example, make that clear, then the other person can say “great me too” or “no I’m only after casual” or whatever. I don’t think you can reasonably expect anyone not to be talking to or meeting other people from the word go, though. If something has been going well and progressing and feelings are developing then you have the conversation a few dates down the line once it’s clear there’s strong potential for a relationship.

I thought the reply was a deliberate misreading (straw manning almost). My perception is that she meant sexually exclusive, not first date/chatting exclusive.

My own view is that you have to be honest from the start, so that I can make my own choices. Having the honest but difficult conversations shows a level of maturity. If you want to sleep with other people- that’s fine. But you need to own that, and be honest.

I don’t think being sexually exclusive from the start is an unreasonable expectation at all. But it does mean holding off having sex until the partner has cleared the decks, and setting that as a clear expectation, without any coyness or apology.

She says "all I want is just a long-term partner, and instead I find myself in more casual situations. I struggle with knowing how or when to have the conversation about turning exclusive, and some people have been put off when I bring it up. I don’t really like the idea of someone I’m dating seeing others and prefer a one-at-a-time approach" which to me seems pretty clear that she's talking about exclusivity when dating, not when chatting on an app or arranging a first date.

“Someone I’m dating seeing others” is ambiguous. It could mean someone she’s been on one or two dates with or someone she’s been seeing for months. I think that is an important distinction. But I agree with the PP that making your desires and expectations clear from the word go is key. Even with wanting a serious exclusive relationship, though, you don’t enter into that until you find someone you want it with, so it’s perfectly reasonable to be going on dates with several people simultaneously until and unless one starts developing.

A lot of dating advice is odd IMO.

I met DH at 18 at uni - our first dates were about getting to know each other long term goals included - even at that age what careers we wanted and if we wanted kids and how many - trying to gauge if this was a short term vs long haul relationship.

Yet that considered awful way too early for such conversations - and thus many of my peers seem to drift into every deeper entwined relationship then finally/eventually have talks and suddenly find they are not same page at all - never were and it's a huge hassle to disengage your lives or you have to massively compromise.

I don't think it's unreasonable to say before you you have sex - we had better be exclusive from now on - otherwise we part now as friends and don't take next step.

However I'm probably sadly unfashionable and don't run in media circles which may have very different perspectives.

It might be reasonable to go on dates with lots of people on different days of the week (so long as you're upfront about that) but it's also reasonable to want to get to know someone without being just one of many people they're meeting. If someone is meeting loads of other people besides you, isn't there a good chance it comes down to (at best) how you compare to those other people, rather than growing a connection?

If someone is meeting loads of other people besides you, isn't there a good chance it comes down to (at best) how you compare to those other people, rather than growing a connection?

That may be an age/want issue though - if you are coming to end of your fertile years or age you want to become a parent and are looking for someone to start a family with - you may want to run though as many options to meet your aim as possible. Basally you don't have time to fuck around and waste time.

If you in 20 or don't want kids - you have more time to find the "one" and can spend that time with one person and it not panning out isn't a huge deal.

That's interesting. When I was growing up, you were exclusive from first date. As in, you only accepted a date with someone if you were completely single. Then if you liked them, you continued seeing them exclusively. A second date meant you were exclusive, implicitly. People might break up after two or three weeks, once they realised they were not suited but if you dated someone, they were the only person you dated until you split. IMO it is a better system. Constantly keeping all options open makes it harder to bother getting to know someone, or seeing beyond early nerves or early best behaviour.

That advice is weird and unpleasant.

She can do what she wants, ask for what she wants, and seek whatever she wants in a relationship.

'From a purely logistical level you have to talk to several people at once on apps and meet several dates in a week. It’s a numbers game - the more you meet the more you widen the net'

As I said above, there is no 'have to'.

Surely there are different apps with different approaches?

I’d expect exclusivity from date 1. Make up your mind then. If you want to continue with me then it is just me. If you want to continue to shop around then bye!

No I don’t think so personally. If you’re going to develop a connection with someone it’s down to that person’s individual qualities. Doesn’t matter if you’re meeting 10 people or one, if there’s a person with the potential to connect romantically with, that’ll be apparent regardless of other “options”. Same with meeting people irl - in a workplace or a hobby group there might be a pool of several people who are eligible on paper to date, but their presence doesn’t detract from the one person you develop feelings for.

That’s your prerogative but you need to make that clear. Many people wouldn’t have that expectation. I wouldn’t agree to being exclusive with someone I’d only met for a few hours - but I’d respect that that’s their approach and decline any further dates as it’s not how I’d want to do things.

But you continue to date them with one eye over their shoulder for someone better?

No, with a recognition that I hardly know them, and haven’t decided whether they are merely an acquaintance or something more.

I certainly wouldn’t/didn’t cancel an arranged date under those terms. We aren’t talking months here, we are talking days/weeks.

For my own part I have never asked for exclusivity… but I do find that the sort of men I am attracted to prefer to be exclusive too, and that they choose to be exclusive to me, without having to be asked.

It's been a while but (unless I'm looking for just a shag) I'd say exclusive from first shag is reasonable.

The reason a lot men don't care is that eggs are expensive and sperm is cheap. Evolutionarily, we should be choosy. For them, it's a numbers game.

Well yes, in the early days. If I meet someone that I think has potential but have three more dates arranged, I wouldn’t cancel them. It’s a process of elimination. I found when dating that 95% of people I met were fine but I didn’t have a spark with them. So I’d arrange another date with the person I like, go on my three other pre-arranged dates. Say I like one of those, they progress to date 2. The others don’t. So then I’d have date 2 with person A and B, and continue meeting them to see how things progressed. Whether it entered feelings and exclusive relationship territory depends on the person. I think it’s fair to have the “where’s this going” conversation once you start staying at each other’s place and shagging. I’d assume the person I was dating was taking the same approach

Yeah, I think this is about what my expectation would be.

If I am meeting someone I don't really know for a first date, I am not thinking we are "a couple". But I do think we're trying to get to know each other with that possibility in mind.

Going out with a bunch of other people at the same time just kind of undermines that IMO.

I suspect this is part of the reason young people who mainly do OLD are struggling to form relationships. They are basically creating the worst possible scenario for a relationship to develop.

In Scotland you shag each other first and if you still like each other afterwards it's taken as read you're going steady.

You're right op.
The advice is nuts.
I'd tell her to do some hobbies and meet people that way.

OLD is full of cheating men and odd men.

🙌