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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
HerGorgeousMajestyArabellaScott · 27/10/2024 06:48

Might be okay if it's additive? I don't know, although:

'She notes, though, that more research is still needed on how women’s bodies are different from men’s, citing the ACL [anterior cruciate ligament] injury suffered by Arsenal’s Beth Mead as a result of unsuitable football boots. “Women were using small men’s boots. The impact of the studs not giving, or the boot being stiff, was having a negative effect on joints, ligaments and muscles,” she explains.'

If we are to be concerned about unsuitable football boots, possibly worth also having a think about safety risks in mixed sex contact sport.

Taytoface · 27/10/2024 06:50

She never did strike me as the sharpest tool in the box

ReadWithScepticism · 27/10/2024 06:57

I'm not sure that she is responding to the problem of men competing in women's events. It seems like she is speaking to some of the other issues that hold back women's sport. Nurturing an expanded number of mixed teams (in sports where this is possible) in addition to single-sex sport could be part of the process by which sportswomen are given fairer access to opportunities, funding, attention.

If you think about the events in which mixed teams are already a feature - eg Wimbledon - they seem to create additional opportunities for women, rather than a leeching away of already-scant opportunities.

Igneococcus · 27/10/2024 06:58

Mixed relays, fine, or mixed teams like in golf, I don't mind at all, as an addition not a substitute, but I have played high level Volleyball and also in mixed social teams and it's like two different games for the female team members. Every mixed team I have ever played in the men tried to take over and avoid including the women, even if they were technically the better players.

OP posts:
Username65 · 27/10/2024 07:01

Presumably the interview was only granted on condition that she wasn’t asked to comment on the intrusion of men identifying as women into women’s sports and the aggression shown to sportswomen like Sharron and Martina who challenge it. What a waste of time.
Pleased to see that large majority of Times readers are equally unimpressed.

FavouriteYellowChair · 27/10/2024 07:03

Mixed doubles in tennis is basically a fun social game though, isn’t it? The men hold back when serving or hitting at the women otherwise it’d be a pretty monotonous game.

AlisonDonut · 27/10/2024 07:04

Has the batshit signal gone out to anyone that wants to carry on working with the BBC This is not the first 'I just don't know why we even have seperate sports' article this week.

Iamiams · 27/10/2024 07:12

Maybe she’s thinking in horse racing terms? From googling: In conclusion, although male horses do hold a slight speed advantage over conspecific females, the difference is an order of magnitude smaller than that seen in humans (~1% vs. ~10%).

BonfireLady · 27/10/2024 07:15

Igneococcus · 27/10/2024 06:58

Mixed relays, fine, or mixed teams like in golf, I don't mind at all, as an addition not a substitute, but I have played high level Volleyball and also in mixed social teams and it's like two different games for the female team members. Every mixed team I have ever played in the men tried to take over and avoid including the women, even if they were technically the better players.

Every mixed team I have ever played in the men tried to take over and avoid including the women, even if they were technically the better players.

This is what I'm hearing too, about school PE lessons.

Also she's completely missing the raised risk of injury to female players if they are playing with (and therefore also against) males. Football tackles and spiked balls in volleyball are just a couple of examples where a larger, stronger faster male could easily injure females. It feels like common sense has gone out of the window.

LizzieSiddal · 27/10/2024 07:20

I wonder if this is the new BBC line which they will be pushing no doubt.

EmpressaurusDeiGatti · 27/10/2024 07:20

Clare Balding is never going to speak up for women’s sex-based rights - or at least, I’d be astounded & hugely impressed if she did.

She & her wife are involved with a group called West London Queer Project whose priorities are the exact opposite. It would be social death for her.

Igneococcus · 27/10/2024 07:23

Football tackles and spiked balls in volleyball are just a couple of examples where a larger, stronger faster male could easily injure females.
The really good players know this and are usually holding back (I have encountered one or two Seria A players while playing fun summer tournaments in Northern Italy) it's the ones that aren't good enough to control well what they are doing that are causing the biggest issues in Volleyball. Probably similar in other ball sports.

OP posts:
MoveToParis · 27/10/2024 07:23

I think a compulsory mixed Premiership season would have this resolved in time for sanity to be restored for the Boxing Day matches.

Snowypeaks · 27/10/2024 07:28

I get what she means. And as long as it's in addition to women's single sex sports, not instead of, I think it could be a good development, completely depending on the sport of course. Tennis is interesting - a pp made a good point about men holding back with the power.
Also depends on the age of the participants. Girls really need SS sports so that they can be successful on their own terms and establish their love of the sport, build up their confidence.

Not keen on mixed sex teams in contact sports, even limited contact sports. But mixed relays in swimming, triathlon and track sprints are here to stay, not least because the athletes seem to love them.

Snowypeaks · 27/10/2024 07:29

MoveToParis · 27/10/2024 07:23

I think a compulsory mixed Premiership season would have this resolved in time for sanity to be restored for the Boxing Day matches.

😆😆
True!

Snowypeaks · 27/10/2024 07:32

However, Clare Balding is wrong about football not being about power. It is about power, and speed, just not those attributes alone. It's like saying tennis isn't about power just because it's also a highly technical sport.

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 27/10/2024 07:35

Sounds like the sort of guff we could have expected from the WEP. Someone tell her she's missed the boat. And to fuck off.

ErrolTheDragon · 27/10/2024 07:39

Iamiams · 27/10/2024 07:12

Maybe she’s thinking in horse racing terms? From googling: In conclusion, although male horses do hold a slight speed advantage over conspecific females, the difference is an order of magnitude smaller than that seen in humans (~1% vs. ~10%).

And as a rider, equestrian sports are among the few where women and men can compete together, because most of the muscle is from the horse.

ErrolTheDragon · 27/10/2024 07:46

Anyway... I think she was meaning more events designed and managed to be truly mixed events. Some more of those in addition to single sex sports wouldn't be a bad thing. And I'd bet that males showing up to try to take women's places on a team would get pushback from the men. It might be clearer that the sports are mixed sex rather than the nonsensical idea of them using 'gender'.

But single sex sports are obviously always going to be the main thing especially at the elite level.

BezMills · 27/10/2024 07:54

I'm all for mixed sex sports as an addition to female only sports. The ones that work well tend to have rules about the number of males and females.

Snowypeaks · 27/10/2024 08:01

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 27/10/2024 07:35

Sounds like the sort of guff we could have expected from the WEP. Someone tell her she's missed the boat. And to fuck off.

I think CB is coming at this from the viewpoint that women's sports needs men to make it interesting (whether she realises that or not). Not MCW competing as women, but the imprimatur of male interest. Quite a common attitude amongst sportswomen.

But there are, or can be, benefits for women's sport of having safe mixed sport. It separates male athletic performance advantage from talent, IYSWIM. In a mixed doubles match, the acknowledged best player is as likely to be one of women players as one of the men - in fact, more likely, because more higher ranked women players play mixed doubles than men.
It models - or can do - respect for women's achievements in women's bodies which is good for youngsters of both sexes to see.

So I would cautiously welcome something like this for adults - but only if

  1. it didn't put women's safety at risk from men's greater power and
  2. if the women's equal role in team performance was baked into the sport - as in mixed doubles or relays. It works when you get equal numbers of each sex on each team, and all effectively playing the same role. In volleyball, or football for example, a male goalkeeper or central striker would give his team an advantage if the corresponding players on the opposing team were women. A dominant player could push women teammates out. In relays, each team member has their own space to shine.

Finally, I also like mixed track relays especially because often the backup squad members get their day in the sun.

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 27/10/2024 08:03

But even if we agree that mixed sex sports is great, the same problem will still exist if the ‘mixed sex’ is actually just the one sex.

ApocalipstickNow · 27/10/2024 08:04

BonfireLady · 27/10/2024 07:15

Every mixed team I have ever played in the men tried to take over and avoid including the women, even if they were technically the better players.

This is what I'm hearing too, about school PE lessons.

Also she's completely missing the raised risk of injury to female players if they are playing with (and therefore also against) males. Football tackles and spiked balls in volleyball are just a couple of examples where a larger, stronger faster male could easily injure females. It feels like common sense has gone out of the window.

just an anecdote but I was in a primary PE lesson a couple of weeks ago and the teacher ended up splitting the kids into girls and boys to play on separate courts because none of the boys were passing to the girls, despite the fact we have a number of very talented sporty girls.

Snowypeaks · 27/10/2024 08:07

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 27/10/2024 08:03

But even if we agree that mixed sex sports is great, the same problem will still exist if the ‘mixed sex’ is actually just the one sex.

Edited

True, but I don't think CB is advocating that, or would do so.
She tends to avoid the subject, IIRC. Which makes me suspect that she is anti men in women's sport, but also wants to preserve her stellar career.

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 27/10/2024 08:08

I really doubt there's good faith from CB here. I think @Username65 nails it. Not sure why people are giving CB the benefit of the doubt. We don't owe her anything.

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