London Panto Alternative/Drag Free Panto

[RunsWithDinosaurs]

Can anyone think of or recommend a drag-free panto or panto alternative? I used to take my eldest to the panto at the Lyric Hammersmith as it was reasonably affordable but not sure I want to teach my girls that mimicking a woman is the ultimate laugh-fest. I’ve seen A Christmas Carol at The Old Vic during preview week but even the cheap seats would be extortionate for a family of 5. Anyone got any bright ideas?

Opera Holland Park are also doing a Christmas Carol with tickets starting at £15 operahollandpark.com/productions/a-christmas-carol/

Is Peter Pan Gone Wrong on in London? I saw it a few years ago when it came oop North, hilarious! Although I've no idea what the tickets might cost, if it's on.

I'm not sure you'll find a traditional panto without the Dame, it's a key element as much as "He's behind you".

Ballet: Alice in Wonderland or Cinderella at ROH. Or The Nutcracker from ENB.

Opera: Hansel and Gretel at ROH.

All absolute classic children's Christmas shows.

I agree it’s hard. I did manage to find one last year but it wasn’t in London. It wasn’t advertised as such though, just obvious from the cast list.

Oh this looks fun. Strangely it seems to be playing but doesn’t have confirmed dates, which seems odd given that we’re two-thirds through October and it’s meant to run November-January.

I think the biggest issue is that theatre is just so bloody expensive. It’s possible to find relatively cheap local productions of a panto but not of anything else.

Local am/dram can be fun. Less likely to have someone, a gent perhaps, who's made mocking women his career. Although, I'd double check.

Are we really boycotting pantomime dames now? Do you actually think that's proportionate or meaningful?

I don't think a pantomime dame is quite the same as "drag". The whole point of pantomimes are they are silly and over the top and actors playing all sorts of characters that aren't realistic.
The main male character lead is often played by a female (Peter Pan, Jack and the Beanstalk etc).
Just go to a regular panto and have a laugh.

There was at least one panto in my local town last year that had a drag queen rather than a dame. And the principle boy is often a man, usually a micro- celebrity from a soap, a talent or a reality show, although that's been a thing since Neighbours and Home & Away took off here.

It is misogyny though, and once seen it cant be unseen.

Yeah I can understand wanting to steer clear.

My past is full of misogyny that I didn't know how to question at the time, but now I do. I want my children empowered in a way I wasn't.

My son was a panto dame in drama club when tiny and it was hilarious and adorable. I have enjoyed drag nights before and in my youth frequented a gay club with drag queens, transexuals and transvestites. But....Awareness of harm grows and sometimes one can't enjoy things that previously were fun. The vicious misogyny of trans rights ideology and some current drag artists has made me wary of all of it tbh.

I liken it to cocaine and real fur. Things that would be enjoyable but can't be when one becomes aware of the wider harm to others.

Who's the "we"? It's a discussion.

If west London is accessible to you, you could try the Questors Theatre. We used to take our dc to see the Christmas shows there, and they were always excellent. No idea whether they go full on drag dame now, but there's no mention of it in the schedule.

I don’t know who “we” is.

Theatre is a big treat for us and if I’m taking my children for a treat I’d rather not sit there feeling my blood boil at an insulting caricature of womanhood. Like others have said, I’ve enjoyed panto and drag in the past but now that I’ve seen it I can’t unsee it. I’d also rather not expose my daughters to the idea that men dressing as women as the butt of a joke is funny.

I’m not demanding all panto be shut down, or for a woman-wide boycott I’m just looking for alternatives for my family.

I wonder if a 'proper' panto dame might be seen as mocking not women but drag. Haven't seen one for ages but I think it could, and inoculate against real drag.

Oh that’s an interesting thought.

And what about the pantomine horse - two blokes, one each end, mocking all things equestrian. Does anyone know of a panto with real horses please.

Yes, I remember panto having a Dame - who was always a well-known actor quite obviously not a woman and not trying very hard to be, which was what was funny about it - and a Principal Boy who was usually a well-known woman actor/singer who was also pretty unconvincing when she did that thigh-slapping thing.. so all in all, completely unserious, lots of fun, and even in retrospect I don't think it was sexist.
But if the Dame is one of those grotesque drag queens, and the Principal Boy is just a boy, where's the world-turned-upside-down fun?

As for Panto with Real Horses - I think that's a circus, ginasevern

@ginasevern exactly - it's all about the ridiculous when it comes to panto.
The horse is often 2 comedians and the joke is they are clearly two people in a costume and there'll be mishaps like one moving forward and the other backwards so the "horse" stretches.
The point of a pantomime is it's silly and over the top.

Hansel & Gretel at the Globe?

The National Theatre is advertising a production of Ballet Shoes (based on Noel Streatfeild's book) which in on from 23 Nov to 22 Feb.

This doesn't work, pantomime dames were mocking women long before drag became a 'thing'.

They're pure misogyny through and through - men in womanface.

@parryofwomen yes but traditionally the "male lead" is played by a woman.
The gender swap is part of the joke.