Kamala Harris has a problem with men. Will misogyny cost her the election?

[IwantToRetire]

There was an earlier thread about whether the Democrats would support a WOC candidate https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5124648-will-us-democrats-support-a-woc-as-their-candidate-or-will-they-by-pass-kamala-harris

And I think there were some later about her policies, but then maybe there weren't. https://kamalaharris.com/issues/

But was depressed to see this article Kamala Harris has a problem with men. Will misogyny cost her the election?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/20/kamala-harris-has-a-problem-with-men-will-misogyny-cost-her-the-election
(Should have been men have a problem, not making out she is the problem.)

Polls reflect this age-old dichotomy. Men are more likely to back Trump; women lean towards Harris. A recent New York Times-Siena poll put her 16 points ahead of Trump among female voters. NBC gave her a 14-point lead with women. Trump leads by up to 16 points among men.

Harris’s gender may be tacitly affecting or reinforcing attitudes in other voter categories. In the New York Times poll, 60% of white college-educated voters backed Harris, while 63% of white non-college-educated voters backed Trump. Likewise, Trump, who is white, has a significant advantage among white people while Harris, who identifies as black and Asian, leads among non-whites. Yet voters in two other key categories, blacks and Hispanics, are less supportive of Harris than of Biden in 2020, surveys show – a decline partly driven by younger, non-college-educated Hispanic males. Speaking in pivotal Pennsylvania, Barack Obama angrily castigated his black “brothers” for finding “all kinds of excuses” not to support a woman.

Its just really depressing to think this is the basis on which the decision about the next US President is taken. Because like it or not what the US does or doesn't do impacts on the rest of us.

Even though they are now talking about Trump's mental capacity Trump’s Unwieldy Speeches Raise Questions About His Mental Acuity https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/10/16/trumps-unwieldy-speeches-raise-questions-about-his-mental-acuity/ it doesn't seem likely it will change the minds of his supporters. And is already clear he doesn't feel the need to abide by accepted norms in terms of procedures.

Divisive politics in the UK seems to have lead to an apathy, disengagement (low turn out at GE) but it seems, if news channels are to be believed, that in the US the devisions are making people more active engaged. More oppositional

Or rather men not caring about women's issues, or even trusting a woman to be President.

Isn’t the idea that American companies don’t import from China but develop manufacturing (and associated jobs) within the US?

That would be great, if it was possible. The reality is that importing Chinese goods is cheaper than making them in the US, therefore there is no incentive to manufacture them in the US. This is why the manufacturing sector has been in the death throes for some time. Increasing tarrifs would only finish it off. Trump does not understand basic economic reality.
He cannot bring manufacturing back to what it used to be. The world has changed. Trumpers don't want to face this and prefer to live in a fantasy world.

It reminds me of the scene in the film Primary Colours where the Presidential candidate has a campaign stop in a plant (think it was a car manufacturing plant, but not sure) and he levels with them. He tells them that the era of making money with your muscles is gone and they are going to have to exercise a different set of muscles in the current economy- the ones between their ears.
One of the advisers says, "He's lost them!" and the other responds, "Fuck them. He's got me."
Trump supporters would be outraged by a politician telling the unpleasant truth like that. They want to be lied to so they can live on their Fantasy Island where it's the 1950s. It's really quite sad.

The reality is that importing Chinese goods is cheaper than making them in the US, therefore there is no incentive to manufacture them in the US. This is why the manufacturing sector has been in the death throes for some time. Increasing tarrifs would only finish it off. Trump does not understand basic economic reality.
He cannot bring manufacturing back to what it used to be. The world has changed. Trumpers don't want to face this and prefer to live in a fantasy world.

And equally, that applies to the UK too.

@XChrome I think there is space for heavily investing in more automated technologies and very efficient technologies that will make at least some manufacturing work viable. Low labour costs in other parts of the world meant it was cheaper for companies to outsource to them than to invest in more automated processes, but that is changing as slowly labour costs are rising elsewhere. (And some of the problems with long supply chains (Covid, war, ships getting stuck) have been exposed in recent times.) That could actually be a problem in the future if everything is outsourced.
Germany is suffering a bit now, but they were incredibly effective at keeping their car industries etc going. Maybe a better example is the Netherlands very successful investment in their chip industry. So maybe less people employed overall, but people still involved in making things even if those things are more sophisticated/to a higher spec. A lot of people recoil from the idea that their country would just stop making things/become a service economy and I think actually they are right to. But Trump's idea to just put a tariff on everything will kill industry faster and fix nothing.

(And if you wanted to do all the above, you would still need to be importing things and exporting things ideally without a high tariff both ways).

I agree with your points @biscuitandcake.
However, one of the reasons for manufacturing jobs disappearing has been automation, so that's a double edged sword. It's such a a complicated issue. Trump is trying to make it seem simple and easy, which appeals to his self-deluded followers.

It's what the Right does. Simple solutions, one sentence answers: "Lock her up", "Build a wall", "MAGA!", "Tariffs!". If it was that fucking easy... 🙄

I'm watching the docu right now the Trump campaign's attempts to overturn election results in Georgia. How that POS Giuliani has the front to accuse anyone of anything I can't understand.

IKR. All worthless slogans designed to appease the masses.
It shows the contempt Trump has for his own supporters. He thinks he's so far above them even though he's as stupid as it gets and a profoundly despicable person.

That prick. I have hated Giuliani for about twenty years. There is no low he will not stoop to. People who have worked with him have described him as a combination of Lucifer and Marie Antoinette.

Actually, it makes me think; back at the time of 9/11, didn't I buy into the narrative of him as the hero of NY? That's how he was painted at the time, and from far away across the Atlantic, I didn't demur. As did a lot of people, I guess. Subsequent events have made it too clear. But how wrong I was...

That was based on his false claims of heroism, which were later debunked. For example, he claimed he spent more time at the 9/11 site than first responders did and was exposed to the same amount of toxic material.
It was later proven that he had spent 29 hours in three months there, time which members of the New York fire department were doing in two or three days.
He also did not do any work which exposed him to the same level of toxins, such as sorting through rubble. His visits were just for photo ops and talking to various officials who were onsite.
He's nothing but a con man.

Yes, that. I know all that now, but I didn't at the time. I was taken in, as were many. And it's not pleasing.

Whatever he said afterward, he really was great after September 11th. Plenty of us who weren't fans were able to admit he handled the immediate aftermath surprisingly well.

Being a public servant is not about having a silver tongue.

Keeping people calm after a terrorist attack is absolutely part of a public servant's job.

Well, the idea is it would force those industries that currently rely on imported components to re-start manufacturing them domestically. That’s the theory anyway. You heavily tax finished goods but don’t tax raw materials - basic 19th century mercantilism. The US has such a huge internal market and latent manufacturing base it might even get away with it.

There is also a big issue with national security to be so reliant on China for manufacturing.

It's what the Right does. Simple solutions, one sentence answers: "Lock her up", "Build a wall", "MAGA!", "Tariffs!".

In terms of single sentence campaigns - that is hardly a right wing thing. It is not even just a political thing. It is an effective advertising tool too. Of course it isn’t that simple to implement but it is an effective way of appealing to voters and spreading your core message. That can be evidenced by the simple fact you quoted them.

I mean - Harris is pro-wall now I believe.

TempestTost, that's interesting - what's the guy's name? On the gun control issue, according to Reuters 60% of black people support gun control, but the numbers who don't are rising. https://www.reuters.com/article/world/uk/african-americans-still-favor-gun-control-but-views-are-shifting-idUSKCN0PP2N2/

TempestTost, also on black men voting, what do you think they disliked about Obama's message? You say they feel they've woken up, is this due to other particular issues apart from gun control & taxes?

Try watching the clip. I think they were pissed that they told them they should vote for Harris because she is black, and if they didn't want to it was because they had a problem with women.

The YouTuber is called Mr Polo. He's from New York, he has a few channels on music and movies.

I don't think it's that they have woken up about guns or taxes at all - those were what that particular guy cared about, others have their own focus.

What they seem to feel though, as a group, is that they had a loyalty to the Democratic party, an assumption that they were the party that was best for black Americans. And that when Obama came in, they thought things would really change for them, or start to change.

So it's like suddenly, they are thinking, well what if the other party is actually proposing policies that are better for me? What if Obama isn't much like me at all, even though he is a black man? If I will only ever vote Democrat, what motivation do they have to create policies that I want? Why are there so many black leaders in some states and cities but things basically run the same way as in white dominated cities?

In some ways I think it's like what happened to some women with Gender Ideology - one thing made them start to question the policies of their political tribe in a more robust way, and they are finding some of them they don't really agree with.

Overall I'd characterize it as a lot of guys suddenly being more interested in policy than identity.

Perhaps they just don't like identity politics - whereby your motivations and perspectives are presumed to be entirely predicated on your natal sex or your skin colour/ethnicity.

The truth is that most working class men tend to do manual labour which involves very tedious, dirty and dangerous work, getting up on roofs, digging up roads, cleaning very dirty drains, working in factories and often working unsocial hours. These people don't feel the the Democrats represent them anymore.

And the parallel with the Labour Party in the UK is obvious.