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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
IDontHateRainbows · 12/10/2024 08:55

It makes you wonder what the hell the sonographers are doing at the 20 week scan when sex is usually identified if it's then all up in the air/ play it by ear when baby is born to be 'assigned at birth'.
Surely if they are going this route it should be assigned during the scan? It's not like it's likely to change!

IDontHateRainbows · 12/10/2024 08:58

knitnerd90 · 12/10/2024 02:58

I mean things like de-gendering professional titles was gathering steam decades ago, saying "police officer" and "firefighter" because it reinforced the idea that only men did those jobs if you said "policeman" and "fireman", plus the problem with using a masculine plural for a mixed group. Those specific examples are American, but neutral language isn't unique to them, or even to English. Notice how many writers don't use the word "actress" anymore. It didn't originate because of trans or nonbinary people, it was about women, actually. They've just decided to repurpose an existing idea for a new agenda here.

(I can find far worse examples, including questioning the entire word "midwife" since it means "with woman.")

BTW the gender neutral Americanism for "mailman" is "mail carrier" or "letter carrier".

Edited

I like the very British 'postie'.

UmbrellaEllaEllaElla · 12/10/2024 08:58

When did the world go crazy?

Nannyfannybanny · 12/10/2024 09:03

Its as though they are already waiting for the baby to transgender in the future! How many times do you see posts on here "what gender is my baby", several of us reply,"it's sex not gender".

IDontHateRainbows · 12/10/2024 09:12

Nannyfannybanny · 12/10/2024 09:03

Its as though they are already waiting for the baby to transgender in the future! How many times do you see posts on here "what gender is my baby", several of us reply,"it's sex not gender".

Most people just use gender interchangeably for sex at the 20 week scan stage, it's not like anyone expects the baby to come out holding a spanner or a tutu. But language matters, and this is where it starts.

IDontHateRainbows · 12/10/2024 09:13

UmbrellaEllaEllaElla · 12/10/2024 08:58

When did the world go crazy?

I reckon in he early 2010s?
I remember going to Brighton pride in 2008 and it was very much still an LGB thing, no mention of the T and although T must have been there I don't remember it being 'a thing'.

HootyMcBooby · 12/10/2024 11:29

It absolutely doesn't "accurately describe" ANYTHING.
It conflates what is a very simple immutable fact.

Two sexes.
TWO.

No assigning.
No guessing.
No third sex.
No third gamete.
Sex is determined at the point of conception and is a reality until the last breath is taken regardless of what interventions are taken.

And that's what makes them madder than hell.

SapphireSeptember · 12/10/2024 11:50

I don't know if I'm living somewhere sane, but I had none of this nonsense when I was pregnant with my DS. The sonographer told me I was having a boy (and quite helpfully pointed out his penis and testicals on the scan picture 😂) and all the leaflets I read talked about women and mothers. But anyway... I have eyes, I would have been able to accurately sex him when he was born even if I hadn't been told that at my 20 week scan.

mumof2many1943 · 12/10/2024 12:02

How about whoopee your baby has a penis or whoopee your baby has a vagina. Usually very chilled about life and choices but this is ridiculous 🤬

NPET · 12/10/2024 13:02

SabrinaThwaite · 11/10/2024 23:37

Born with or without a vagina would probably galvanise men into a proper WTF moment.

Maybe but I like the idea of referring to babies as having or not having a p. It's more obvious anyway. When I did some student nursing (it didn't last!), there was a nurse who referred to newborns as haps or naps ("having a penis" or "not having a penis").

Cheesecakecookie · 12/10/2024 13:28

This just fascinates me.

The NHS doesn’t care about hurt feeling or even physical pain for women in a whole range of circumstances.

But god forbid you upset the T.

theDudesmummy · 12/10/2024 14:48

I recall the radiographer telling me of a scan as she was doing it "oh look, there's his boy thing!" (she wasn't English). It was delightful. I suppose she couldn't say that now then?

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 12/10/2024 14:51

Fucking idiots.

IDontHateRainbows · 12/10/2024 17:30

theDudesmummy · 12/10/2024 14:48

I recall the radiographer telling me of a scan as she was doing it "oh look, there's his boy thing!" (she wasn't English). It was delightful. I suppose she couldn't say that now then?

Mine made a big fuss of saying there s the legs, the back, the this the that .... and do you know what this is? THIS ( penis, obv) means you're having a boy!

Sweet way to reveal the sex, probably consigned to history now.

JeremiahBullfrog · 12/10/2024 22:08

Perhaps they could say "conceived male/female" instead.

TripleCarber · 12/10/2024 22:42
Tv Drama Annie GIF by Two Cities TV

That is beyond ridiculous.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 12/10/2024 22:44

'Identified as...' would be better if they really want to empathize that it's a judgment by the medical staff

ScrollingLeaves · 13/10/2024 00:55

NoBinturongsHereMate · 11/10/2024 19:40

Guidance developed by the James Paget University Hospitals Trust in Great Yarmouth said its staff should use the phrase "assigned female/male at birth” instead.
It claims this “accurately depicts the situation of what happens at birth” and also describes other “inclusive language dos and don’ts” for its staff.

The document, called Celebrating Pride, includes an “LGBTQ+ glossary” with definitions for the range of terminology that should be used. It also has a list of words and phrases to avoid in order not upset patients.

Not an accurate description of what happens, and it's managed to upset me - I'm sure plenty of patients will also be upset, offended, and worst of all confused.

It also tells staff to avoid terms like “both genders” and “opposite sexes” because it implies there are only two – as well as titles such as mailman, fireman, and policeman.

There are only 2 sexes. And that last bit tells me it was lifted wholesale from something American.

It should be illegal to block factual language related to biology in a hospital.

ballybooboo · 13/10/2024 01:00

Cheesecakecookie · 12/10/2024 13:28

This just fascinates me.

The NHS doesn’t care about hurt feeling or even physical pain for women in a whole range of circumstances.

But god forbid you upset the T.

I know!

I can't imagine pushing a human out of my body and then being faced with this bullshit when wondering what sex my unborn child was

YellowAsteroid · 13/10/2024 14:04

Well I suppose strictly speaking we are not born male or female - our sex is determined at the point of conception. Observation of our sex at birth is just confirmation of that.

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