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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Police Scotland allows 'crossdressers' and 'Polygender' staff to use toilet and changing facilities of their choosing

39 replies

ArabellaScott · 09/10/2024 12:58

Transitioning at Work SOP

Policy

'Transgender or trans is a word used to describe a wide range of people
whose gender identity or the way they express their gender is different
from the gender they were assigned at birth.
ï‚· This includes transsexual people (women or men), cross-dressing
people, androgynous or non-binary people and others.'

'We will support all transgender members of staff in the workplace and
go beyond the requirements of the Equality Act 2010, which specifically
protects people if they propose to undergo, are undergoing or have
undergone gender reassignment or have gone through part of the
process.'

...

'All members of staff are entitled to use toilet and changing facilities appropriate to the sex in which they are currently living, regardless of whether they undergo gender reassignment, such as hormonal or surgical treatment or having socially transitioned by changing name, appearance, title, clothing etc'

'Once you have been told that someone is transgender you must use their new name and the pronoun that they would like to be used.'

...

From the Glossary:

'Cross-dressing People (also referred to as Transvestite People) - This term
refers to people who dress, either occasionally or more regularly, in clothes
associated with the opposite gender, as defined by socially accepted norms. Cross-dressing people are generally satisfied with their birth gender and do not want to permanently alter the physical characteristics of their bodies or change their legal gender. They may dress as the opposite gender for emotional satisfaction, or just because they feel more comfortable doing so.'

Androgynous People (also sometimes called Third-gender People, Bi-gender
People and Polygender People) - This term refers to people who find they do not feel comfortable thinking of themselves as simply either men or women. Instead, they feel that their gender identity is more complicated to describe. Some may identify their gender as being some form of combination between a man and a woman, or as being neither. Like transsexual people, they can experience gender dysphoria (sometimes as intensely as transsexual people do) and may sometimes at least partially transition socially and may take hormones or occasionally undergo some surgery.

MBM article:

https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2024/09/30/transitioning-at-work-how-police-scotland-gave-cross-dressers-an-access-all-areas-pass/

Telegraph:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/10/08/police-scotland-cross-dressers-womens-spaces/

archived Telegraph article:

https://archive.ph/QtdQx#selection-2813.35-2813.98

Transitioning at work: How Police Scotland gave cross-dressers an access-all-areas pass - Murray Blackburn Mackenzie

On 26 September Police Scotland’s Chief Constable Jo Farrell told the Scottish Police Authority (SPA) that the single service would undertake a review of its policies based on gender self-identification principles, to be led by Assistant Chief Constabl...

https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2024/09/30/transitioning-at-work-how-police-scotland-gave-cross-dressers-an-access-all-areas-pass

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 09/10/2024 13:22

More from the glossary:

'Non-binary trans people - is used to refer specifically to the sub-set of trans people who do not feel comfortable thinking of themselves as simply either men or women. They reject the traditional idea of gender as binary, defined only in terms of man or woman. Instead, they feel that their gender identity is more complicated to describe.
Some non-binary trans people may identify their gender as a mixture of being a man and a woman or as fluctuating on a spectrum between man and woman.
Alternatively, they may feel they have no gender and prefer simply to be seen as just a human being. The gender-neutral pronoun ‘they’ is often used by non-binary people. Some non-binary trans people have no interest at all in undergoing any form of gender reassignment. Others may wish to partially transition. Some may undergo the same gender reassignment process as transsexual people but reject identifying simply as a man or a woman after transition. Occasionally, the desire to transition might fluctuate over time.

It is important to note that many non-binary people are protected under the Equality Act 2010 because someone proposing to undergo any part of a process of gender reassignment counts as having the protected characteristic. There is no requirement to complete any particular process of gender reassignment in order to be protected under the Equality Act'

OP posts:
CocoapuffPuff · 09/10/2024 13:29

Oh god. Make it all go away. Seriously, that effing comet cannot obliterate the stupid human race fast enough

lcakethereforeIam · 09/10/2024 13:32

Without fear or favour?

ArabellaScott · 09/10/2024 13:34

Alternatively, they may feel they have no gender and prefer simply to be seen as just a human being....the desire to transition might fluctuate over time.

Deep.

OP posts:
Fenlandia · 09/10/2024 13:36

ArabellaScott · 09/10/2024 13:34

Alternatively, they may feel they have no gender and prefer simply to be seen as just a human being....the desire to transition might fluctuate over time.

Deep.

What would they transition to if they feel they have no gender?

porridgecake · 09/10/2024 13:37

They must have paid somebody (using tax payers' money) to write this?

KasperBells · 09/10/2024 13:38

Urgh! Such a load of twaddle I can hardly stand it. I cannot understand how far police Scotland have gone and with no consideration to female dignity and privacy. Who is paying for this? This is not what I want my taxes being spent on.

UtopiaPlanitia · 09/10/2024 13:41

'We will…go beyond the requirements of the Equality Act 2010…'

Stonewall law in action.

Devilsmommy · 09/10/2024 13:44

Amazing that they managed to avoid the word sex throughout. I'm so sick of these people taking away safe spaces one by one. Live your life however you want but not at the expense of all the women and girls who you claim to identify with and as🤬

Katkins17 · 09/10/2024 13:53

According to this word salad of a report, the only people that don't actually matter or get a say, are bio. Women.

Same old same old.

The people behind this are blatant misogynists enablers, and the women who agree with it need to get a grip and stop pandering to men in dresses.

NPET · 09/10/2024 13:56

I'm incredibly simple.
Afaic, 99% +? of people have either a V or a P. That determines the rooms they use.
I know I know I know l'm supposed to be "woke" and be CONCERNED. I am (the latter), and anyone who, for some reason, feels they were born with the wrong item of the two? Well we can talk about it and
maybe provide separate facilities.
BUT if you haven't got a V and you enter a 🚺, I will not treat you with compassion!

PriOn1 · 09/10/2024 13:56

The police used to know that cross dressing men invaded women’s spaces for all the wrong reasons. Now policemen are being told they are beyond suspicion if they want to do the same.

All the eye rolls in the world are not enough for this bullshit.

WhyamIinahandcartandwherearewegoing · 09/10/2024 14:10

the sex in which they are currently living…

FFS 😡

No surprise this is Scotland, it’s even more batshit on this stuff than the rest of the uk.

duc748 · 09/10/2024 14:18

All the eye rolls in the world are not enough for this bullshit.

Amen to that.

biddyboo · 09/10/2024 14:20

I wonder how most people working for Police Scotland actually feel about this, i.e. is this policy well supported or is it being enforced by a few zealots and everyone else is too afraid to question it?

Sounds like they are leaving themselves open to legal action.

ArabellaScott · 09/10/2024 14:40

PriOn1 · 09/10/2024 13:56

The police used to know that cross dressing men invaded women’s spaces for all the wrong reasons. Now policemen are being told they are beyond suspicion if they want to do the same.

All the eye rolls in the world are not enough for this bullshit.

https://x.com/sappholives83/status/1816266309555884491

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1816266309555884491.html

Thread from a police officer (in the US).

x.com

https://x.com/sappholives83/status/1816266309555884491

OP posts:
INeedAPensieve · 09/10/2024 14:44

Oh I would hate to be a female police officer with Police Scotland. What a joke this is.

MadameRed · 09/10/2024 14:48

The only time I've come across this was in a bar in Glasgow and a man in a skirt (no not a kilt) came in to the ladies but he was followed by 2 Glaswegian men who removed him, they'd seen him lurking. He wasn't "trans" just your run of the mill pervert taking advantage of what he thought he'd get away with. No police, just a couple of decent blokes showing this idiot the door.

MarieDeGournay · 09/10/2024 14:48

porridgecake · 09/10/2024 13:37

They must have paid somebody (using tax payers' money) to write this?

Policing Policy by ChatGPT ?🙄

BezMills · 09/10/2024 15:01

That's pure unadulterated rocket chat.

soupycustard · 09/10/2024 15:13

Looks like this document was written/updated in 2019, and it's hard to tell when the FOI request for it was made. So I'm just hoping that perhaps, now things are being rowed back a little, this may not be the up to date policy.
Tho perhaps that's way too naive of me.

ArabellaScott · 09/10/2024 15:27

soupycustard · 09/10/2024 15:13

Looks like this document was written/updated in 2019, and it's hard to tell when the FOI request for it was made. So I'm just hoping that perhaps, now things are being rowed back a little, this may not be the up to date policy.
Tho perhaps that's way too naive of me.

'At the time of writing, the 2019 TaW policy remains in place'

MBM article, 30th September.

The link I posted at the top of the OP is current. This is their policy.

OP posts:
OP posts:
soupycustard · 09/10/2024 15:32

Sorry Arabella. I can't believe I was that hopeful! Sometimes I think I never learn 🙄

Dominoodles · 09/10/2024 15:32

When did androgyny go from a fashion statement/ personal style to a full on gender identity?