Hilary Cass on Woman's Hour 9.10.24

[WarriorN]

She will apparently be on the programme tomorrow talking about the impact of her report a year later.

I won't be able to listen but just a heads up if anyone else is interested.

And here are the WPATH files in case anyone missed them.

Here is one link to the WPATH pdf
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56a45d683b0be33df885def6/t/65e64b9e5cbd756da9fbbdfa/1709591479160/Final+WPATH+Report.pdf

and another
https://environmentalprogress.org/big-news/wpath-files

Here are some of the reactions:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13156695/Trans-healthcare-doctors-exposed-admitting-patients-young-mentally-ill-understand-consequences-treatment.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/05/wpath-tansgender-hormone-therapy-cancer-links-leaked-emails/

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/wpath-the-truth-about-gender-affirming-healthcare/

https://genspect.org/the-wpath-files-revealed/

Here is a summary from Michael Shellenberger.
https://x.com/shellenberger/status/1764800595473686865?s=20

And the first part. Much more of it requires images.

Here is the threadreader version:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1764799914918490287.html

THE WPATH FILES

Advocates of gender-affirming care say it’s evidence-based.

But now, newly released internal files from the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) prove that the practice of transgender medicine is neither scientific nor medical.

American Medical Association, The Endocrine Society, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and thousands of doctors worldwide rely on WPATH. It is considered the leading global authority on gender medicine.

And yet WPATH’s internal files, which include written discussions and a video, reveal that its members know they are creating victims and not getting “informed consent.”

Victims include a 10-year-old girl, a 13-year-old developmentally delayed adolescent, and individuals suffering from schizophrenia and other serious mental illnesses.

The injuries described in the WPATH Files include sterilization, loss of sexual function, liver tumors, and death.

WPATH members indicate repeatedly that they know that many children and their parents don’t understand the effects that puberty blockers, hormones, and surgeries will have on their bodies. And yet, they continue to perform and advocate for gender medicine.

The WPATH Files prove that gender medicine is comprised of unregulated and pseudoscientific experiments on children, adolescents, and vulnerable adults. It will go down as one of the worst medical scandals in history.

Why I Am Publishing WPATH Files And How I Got Them

The written WPATH Files come from WPATH’s member discussion forum, which runs on software provided by DocMatter.

Ninety seconds of the 82-minute video was made public last year. We are making the full video available for the first time.

One or more people gave me the WPATH Files, and my colleagues and I attempted to summarize them as a series of articles. We quickly realized the topic was too sensitive, complex, and large to be dealt with as a work of journalism, and we moved the project to the research institute I founded seven years ago, Environmental Progress (EP).

The Files are authentic. We redacted most names and left only those individuals who are leading gender medicine practitioners to whom we sent “right-of-reply” emails. We know WPATH members discussed our emails internally. No WPATH leader or member has denied that the Files are anything other than what they appear to be.

EP is publishing a 70-page report to provide context for the 170 pages of WPATH Files. Mia Hughes is the author of the report. It and accompanying summary materials can be downloaded at the link below. That link also provides a link to the full WPATH video.

What were the rebuttals?

Two articles. One from very heavily invested transgender people which used studies that didn't say what they, the article writer, wanted to frame them as saying.

Otherwise, nothing that countered any of the information leaked.

But, apparently.... the side effects are not known and documented so more children need to be treated with these experimental treatments that cause a life time of physical and mental pain.

And apparently, those advocating for this feel they can shame others by making false claims of 'transphobia'. Meaning that protecting children's interests is now transphobic.

And around we go...

I went through all the drugs that are used in the UK for 'puberty blocking' recently and copied out the known side effects. Wish I could remember which post ...

@Lady1ntheLake Do you know what we haven't seen?

Strong evidence at all that using these drugs actually improves the overall health and mental health of children.

Care to point us to any new studies that we might have missed? I, for one, am very interested in seeing these. It adds to our collective knowledge.

Here it is Arabella:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5158567-health-secretary-updates-mps-on-government-and-nhs-englands-work-to-improve-gender-identity-services-implement-recommendations-of-dr-hilary-casss-independent-review-includes-extension-of-puberty-blocker-ban-to-nov-26th-review-of-adult-svcs?reply=138582101&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

Oh! Thank you, I was searching and couldn't bloody find it.

I'll copy and paste it and save it somewhere sensible this time.

I had it in my enormous "saved posts" list!

That is the case for many, many recognised conditions.

But they don't involve radical surgery and medical interventions that are irreversible.

Apart from lobotomies.

ECT is still used but extremely rarely for exceptional mental health circumstances and causes serious memory loss.

Filed under "Devon" in the bbc app 🙄

Puberty-blocker focus disproportionate, Cass says www.bbc.com/news/articles/czj9wyzgxk0o

Proven side effects of Triptorelin:

https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/triptorelin/#side-effects

“That is the case for many, many recognised conditions.”

What other conditions take a healthy body and create life time patients with physical health issues?

This is a very weak argument when you consider the degree of damage and regret associated with this treatment for a mental health condition. And a philosophical belief?

What other irreversible treatments are considered acceptable for physically healthy children purely for a philosophical belief ?

I guess a placebo based trial would be useless

placebo based trials are very often unethical as they deny patients alternative effective treatment. They are also often used by drug companies (along with short followup, small sample size, highly selected patient populations, and carefully selected outcomes) to inflate effectiveness. If their ‘miracle drug’ reduces pain by 10% then what good is that if paracetamol reduces pain by 50%? Especially is their miracle drug has significant side effects….

you're assuming that getting children to desist is a preferable outcome to transition

To live comfortably in your own sex vs the hugely increased morbidity and mortality that results transitioning. Hmm, why should we think the former more preferable? 🤔

'There are no proven side effects'

All the side effects listed by NICE for drugs used off label as 'puberty blockers'.

https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/buserelin/
Common or very common
Depression; mood altered
Rare or very rare
Auditory disorder; hypotension; leucopenia; pituitary tumour benign; thrombocytopenia; tinnitus
Frequency not known
Alopecia; anxiety; appetite change; breast abnormalities; broken nails; concentration impaired; constipation; diarrhoea; dizziness; drowsiness; dry eye; dysuria; embolism and thrombosis; fatigue; feeling of pressure behind the eyes; follicle recruitment increased; galactorrhoea; gastrointestinal discomfort; gynaecomastia; hair changes; headache; hot flush; hydronephrosis; hyperhidrosis; increased risk of fracture; lymphostasis; memory loss; menopausal symptoms; menstrual cycle irregularities; muscle weakness in legs; musculoskeletal discomfort; nausea; oedema; osteoporosis; ovarian and fallopian tube disorders; pain; painful sexual intercourse; palpitations; paraesthesia; QT interval prolongation; sexual dysfunction; shock; skin reactions; sleep disorder; testicular atrophy; thirst; tumour activation temporary; uterine leiomyoma degeneration; vision disorders; vomiting; vulvovaginal disorders; weight changes
https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/gonadorelin/
Uncommon
Pain; skin reactions; swelling
Rare or very rare
Abdominal discomfort; bronchospasm; dizziness; eye erythema; flushing; headache; nausea; tachycardia
Frequency not known
Menorrhagia; sepsis; thrombophlebitis
https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/goserelin/
Common or very common
Alopecia; arthralgia; bone pain; breast abnormalities; depression; glucose tolerance impaired; gynaecomastia; headache; heart failure; hot flush; hyperhidrosis; mood altered; myocardial infarction; neoplasm complications; paraesthesia; sexual dysfunction; skin reactions; spinal cord compression; vulvovaginal disorders; weight increased
Uncommon
Hypercalcaemia (in women); ureteral obstruction
Rare or very rare
Ovarian and fallopian tube disorders; pituitary haemorrhage; pituitary tumour; psychotic disorder
Frequency not known
Abdominal cramps; body hair change; constipation; diarrhoea; fatigue; hepatic function abnormal; interstitial pneumonia; muscle complaints; nausea; nervousness; peripheral oedema (when used for gynaecological conditions); premature menopause; pulmonary embolism; QT interval prolongation; sleep disorder; uterine leiomyoma degeneration; voice alteration; vomiting; vulvovaginal infection; withdrawal bleed
https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/leuprorelin-acetate/
Common or very common
With parenteral use
Appetite decreased; arthralgia; bone pain; breast abnormalities; depression; dizziness; fatigue; gynaecomastia; headache; hepatic disorders; hot flush; hyperhidrosis; insomnia; mood altered; muscle weakness; nausea; paraesthesia; peripheral oedema; sexual dysfunction; testicular atrophy; vulvovaginal dryness; weight change
Uncommon
With parenteral use
Alopecia; diarrhoea; fever; myalgia; palpitations; visual impairment; vomiting
Rare or very rare
With parenteral use
Haemorrhage
Frequency not known
With parenteral use
Anaemia; dyslipidaemia; glucose tolerance impaired; hypertension; hypotension; idiopathic intracranial hypertension; insulin resistance; interstitial lung disease; leucopenia; metabolic syndrome; osteoporosis; paralysis; pulmonary embolism; QT interval prolongation; seizure; severe cutaneous adverse reactions (SCARs); skin reactions; spinal fracture; thrombocytopenia; urinary tract obstruction; vulvovaginal infection
https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/nafarelin/
Common or very common
Artificial menopause; breast abnormalities; chest pain; depression; dyspnoea; emotional lability; headaches; hirsutism; hot flush; hypersensitivity; hypertension; hypotension; insomnia; myalgia; oedema; oestrogen deficiency; paraesthesia; rhinitis; seborrhoea; sexual dysfunction; skin reactions; uterine haemorrhage; vulvovaginal dryness; weight changes
Uncommon
Alopecia; arthralgia; ovarian cyst (may require discontinuation)
Frequency not known
Ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome; palpitations; vision blurred
https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drugs/triptorelin/
Common or very common
Anxiety; asthenia; depression; diabetes mellitus; dizziness; dry mouth; embolism; gastrointestinal discomfort; gynaecomastia; haemorrhage; headache; hot flush; hyperhidrosis; hypersensitivity; hypertension; joint disorders; menstrual cycle irregularities; mood altered; muscle complaints; nausea; oedema; ovarian and fallopian tube disorders; pain; painful sexual intercourse; pelvic pain; sexual dysfunction; skin reactions; sleep disorders; weight changes
Uncommon
Alopecia; appetite abnormal; asthma exacerbated; chills; confusion; constipation; diarrhoea; drowsiness; dyspnoea; flatulence; gout; muscle weakness; taste altered; testicular disorders; tinnitus; vertigo; vision disorders; vomiting
Rare or very rare
Abnormal sensation in eye; chest pain; difficulty standing; fever; hypotension; influenza like illness; musculoskeletal stiffness; nasopharyngitis; orthopnoea; osteoarthritis; QT interval prolongation
Frequency not known
Angioedema; malaise

Aren't some of these side effects (gynaecomastia in males, artificial menopause in females) actually desired outcomes?

Blimey.

'There are no proven side effects'

This is misinformation. And it is harmful.

The “proven” side effects for a very significant place to start is … halting or preventing puberty!!!

And there are “proven” side effects of putting teenaged girls into menopause.

How fucking dismissive is declaring no proven side effects to the brutality of putting girls into menopause as a teen!!

you're assuming that getting children to desist is a preferable outcome to transition

I would agree that being reconciled to the actual sex of your body is preferable to chasing an impossible dream of 'change of sex'. Children do need to understand that their sex cannot change; only their appearance and the words used.

The drugs are used off-licence. GnrH drugs are licensed for use in late stage prostate cancer treatment and in some very rare cases for precocious puberty, as far as I'm aware.

So, for their licensed uses, no these are not desired outcomes.

(edited for accuracy of use in cancer treatment)

References? I'll bet money this didn't happen.

Good point. But of course there just isn't enough research done on them for this usage - is this where people have got the 'no proven side effects' line from?

Despite the extensively well documented side effects from when they are used for their intended purpose?

Factual means based on fact or facts. Which fact or facts are these?

ECT is not always problematic. I had it for the severest form of PND, that left me incapable of getting off the floor on some days (couldn’t even summon up the energy to get into bed).
I was prescribed antidepressants that somehow induced a fit, after which I felt somewhat better, so the psychiatrist suggested ECT. I was horrified at first - it has such a bad press - but eventually agreed. I had three sessions, under general (light) anaesthetic, and it was nothing short of miraculous. Side effects were mild short lived confusion and slight headaches. Within a month I started my degree course in mathematics.

Puberty blockers have been used for central precocious puberty for decades - one study concluded "Results from studies to date support the use of the histrelin implant as a safe, effective, and well-tolerated option for the treatment of children with CPP."

So the question isn't really how safe they are. No gender critical people have mentioned them in that context at all. There is an issue; this drug will treat it.

So, safety concerns are just a sideline. The real issue is that the very worst gender critical people think being transgender is not a desirable outcome - Helen Joyce said "every one of those people [happy or not] is basically, you know, a huge problem to a sane world." The off-brand use is also as distraction - plenty of drugs are prescribed in this way.

Cass ignored "low quality" evidence, wrongly I believe, using the technical term, which I'd argue was bad because it's impossible to conduct "high quality" - read double blind studies with these kinds of drugs.

That said, she is not so ideologically invested that she denies the reality of gender identity, is supporting a full clinical trial for however many children who require it, and supports offering a range of mental health services to transgender children. She also, however reluctantly, acknowledges that transitioning is absolutely the right thing for some people.

So, it could be worse.

@DadJoke My posts earlier in the thread mentioned them specifically being used for precocious puberty (and endometriosis) and made mention of the serious, life-limiting side effects experienced by patients who were treated with blockers for this reason. And I linked to articles with testimonies from those patients.

Cass ignored "low quality" evidence, wrongly I believe, using the technical term, which I'd argue was bad because it's impossible to conduct "high quality" - read double blind studies with these kinds of drugs.

Cass did not ignore non-double blind RCTs. That is a lie that was spread by transactivists. But shows you have not read Cass.