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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The link between autism and eating disorders

39 replies

WarriorN · 08/10/2024 09:41

Links to autism and eating disorders

Discussing sensory issues.

'We need to treat eating disorders in autistic people'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbcradioo_fourfm?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

I'm posting here as there are similarly high rates amongst those with gender dysphoria but the treatment and discussion is so very different, obviously.

And yet GD is known to be "the new version of an eating disorder"

It's also been observed in clinics for treating patients with ED that they often take on trans identities, which I know Professor Michele Moore said was a result of social contagion.

Hadley Freeman makes many analogies in her writing / book too.

The link between autism and eating disorders
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AutismTimesTwo · 08/10/2024 09:43

Thanks for this. As a parent of autistic kids caught up in gender ideology and another recovering from anorexia, this makes total sense to me

WarriorN · 08/10/2024 09:58

I'm sorry AutismTimesTwo, that sounds extremely tough.

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CautiousLurker · 08/10/2024 11:34

We saw Dr Anastassis Spiliadis for a while (ex Tavi, called as a witness in the Keira Bell case) and his Phd/post doctoral research at the time was on the link between eating disorders and gender dysphoria. He actively asked if there was a history of EDs in my family… my mother died from hers after 25 years with it at 56; both I and my half sisters cycled through the anorexia/bulimia/finicky eating etc, and my DD (AUDHD, ROGD) definitely has ARFIDS as part of her autism.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Anastassis-Spiliadis

It’s worth checking out some of his recent publications and the references as I do feel ED’s have a huge pubertal/body dysmorphia component (as well as being socially contagious amongst adolescent girls). Been meaning to look up his actual writing, so have earmarked the above link to so that soon!

RethinkingLife · 08/10/2024 11:41

Puts me in mind of a some thought-provoking pieces about anorexia, eating disorders, and other psychological conditions.

“OCD is not a biological reality,” Gillan said, very matter of factly. “That’s what the data increasingly shows.”

A lump rose in my throat. I fumbled for a response. Hadn’t researchers proved that OCD brains are different biologically? (Some neuroimaging studies show increased activity in various cortices.) “Abnormalities in these regions are by no means exclusive to OCD,” Gillan said. “A great many disorders show the same kinds of brain changes.”

I didn’t know this. I thought my brain shared the same abnormalities as everyone else with OCD and that these were the root causes of our obsessions; that we had brains that were measurably different from the brains of people with, say, ADHD or anorexia. I thought this was the definition of “official” diagnosis. Gillan explained that, on the contrary, psychiatric diagnoses are not based on biomarkers, they are subjective constructs."

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/13/i-was-the-poster-girl-for-ocd-then-i-began-to-question-everything-id-been-told-about-mental-illness

Hilary Mantel:

But we can’t quite consign Gemma to history, to the dustbin of outmoded signs and symptoms or the waste-tip of an age of faith. When we think of young adults in the West, driven by secular demons of unknown provenance to starve and purge themselves, and to pierce and slash their flesh, we wonder uneasily if she is our sister under the skin."

We denigrate the female saints as masochists; noting that anorexic girls have contempt for their own flesh, we hospitalise them and force-feed them, taking away their liberties as if they were criminals or infants, treating them as if they have lost the right to self-determination. But we don’t extend the same contempt to pub brawlers or career soldiers. Men own their bodies, but women’s bodies are owned by the wider society; this observation is far from original, but perhaps bears restatement
When the fashionable and enviable shape was stick-thin, a sly duplicity was at work. One girl, considered photogenic, could earn a living from thinness; another girl, with the same famine proportions but less poster-appeal, would be a suitable case for treatment. The deciding factor seemed to be economic: could she earn a living by anorexia? If so, make her a cover girl; if not, hospitalise her. The case is now altered. The ideal body is attainable only by plastic surgery. The ideal woman has the earning powers of a CEO, breasts like an inflatable doll, no hips at all and the tidy, hairless labia of an unviolated six-year-old. The world gets harder and harder. There’s no pleasing it. No wonder some girls want out.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v26/n05/hilary-mantel/some-girls-want-out

I haven't kept up on whether or not there's more evidence behind this exploration of neuroscience and anorexia.

It seems that once people get sick, decision-making shifts to a different part of the brain that makes it more difficult to make a nuanced choice. Instead, you see the food and you automatically make a specific choice,” Steinglass said.

These findings confirmed Steinglass’s clinical hunch: Anorexia may be more about decision-making than some form of extreme willpower.

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/10/neuroscience-of-anorexia.html

Hilary Mantel · Some girls want out: spectacular saintliness

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v26/n05/hilary-mantel/some-girls-want-out

WarriorN · 08/10/2024 12:05

Excellent links above - Thank you both

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EugenieGrandet · 08/10/2024 12:29

I don't know the science at all, but we've hit the genetic jackpot (the opposite obvs) because our children have them all... ASD, ADHD, OCD, depression, eating disorders and, the one I'm most scared of, transgenderism.

We have 2 daughters (one is now my "son") who were only diagnosed in their late teens as autistic. I so wish they had been diagnosed earlier in their lives, that might have helped them to understand themselves sooner, especially the trans child. Instead of which we spent many many unhappy years with bad mental health (and poor CAMHS treatment) which I believe has led them to becoming trans.

The eating disorder was so much about control, hatred of her own body, it was the precursor to "becoming" a boy.

Also not discussed or researched much it seems, how ASD people some times seem drug-resistant. My "son" has tried 5 different kinds of anti depressants, 2 kinds of ADHD drugs and he says none of them have a positive effect on him (they don't reduce the depression symptoms or help him to focus). Has anyone else experienced this?

Igmum · 08/10/2024 12:43

Thanks @WarriorN will definitely listen. DD18 was only diagnosed two weeks ago (I'd been asking for over a decade), binge eats like crazy and is non-binary. I wish I could magic her problems away and help her to a balanced lifestyle including exercise and decent meals.

AutismTimesTwo · 08/10/2024 12:56

WarriorN · 08/10/2024 09:58

I'm sorry AutismTimesTwo, that sounds extremely tough.

Thanks @WarriorN
It is an absolute fucking nightmare

OuterSpaceCadet · 08/10/2024 13:12

Thanksrethinkinglife for that interesting post.

I've just read the Guardian article. It's stuff I already knew but that I have a really hard time knowing how to gently persuade friends and family of. The author describes the process of having to re-evaluate her identity in the light of evidence so well. And she was more invested than many in the medical model of illness, having had her memoir adapted to screen.

My education in this has come partly from reading Cracked by James Davies. Highly recommend to anyone interested in just how unscientific mental health diagnoses (and I have one myself) are.

I can't help thinking trans ideology is very much a symptom of a world that is more comfortable with a medical model of mental health than with analysing the social and environmental factors of modern life.

LizzieBowesLyon · 08/10/2024 13:15

I’m trying to find words but just feeling fear.

OuterSpaceCadet · 08/10/2024 13:23

I'm really sorry for anyone in the thick of any of this, especially with kids. It's really, really hard. And getting the right support is really, really hard.

Catgotyourbrain · 08/10/2024 13:23

I listened to this and thought their new protocol sounded like a no brainer - especially when she said that the NT patients also appreciated the same interventions- like opportunities for quiet and knowing the best way to communicate. Made me wonder how it was before TBH

WarriorN · 08/10/2024 13:27

Yes, I'm not sure it's going to give many answers to anyone who's battling the system currently.

It's basic autism awareness and structured approaches within clinical care which have been well known about for decades.

I suppose what may be an additional issue is that many of these girls don't arrive with the diagnosis.

However, these approaches benefit anyone with extreme anxiety. It's not rocket science.

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CitrineRaindropPhoenix · 08/10/2024 13:33

Thank you so much for this. My oldest child is female but identifies as non-binary and has a diagnosis of autism and ADHD. She also is an incredibly picky eater but has slightly too wide a range of foods and too healthy a weight to be eligible for any help ( 28 safe foods, 10 if absolutely necessary) and a BMI of 16. I just try to keep her eating but will definitely be listening as any help is welcome.

RedToothBrush · 08/10/2024 14:25

The other cracker I found out recently is that many women find out they are autistic when they hit perimenopause because they struggle more than women who are not neuro-diverse. PMDD is much more common too. So are PCOS, endometriosis and other reproductive health issues. I believe post natal depression is also more common. And I believe there are higher rates of autoimmune disorders and allergies. Coeliac Disease is a key one. (Gluten also known to disrupt a number of hormones including estrogen too so again some commonality here).

https://attwoodandgarnettevents.com/hormonal-changes-and-autistic-girls-women/

This article is an interesting roundup of a number of these hormone related issues.

So autism in women could very much be a sex based hormone related disorder. Not an identity issue.

It's unsurprising that some girls get house on the complex needs bingo card for this reason.

Hormone imbalances are known to commonly be misdiagnosed as depression. (I ponder whether resistance to anti-depression drugs is due to the drugs not treating an underlying issue of hormone imbalance).

I note there's been a lot about how there seems to be an uptick in the number of people who are neuro-diverse though we don't have any real hard data for this because we suspect so many went undiagnosed in the past. But hold on a second... We DO know that there's an increase in allergy prevalence. We also know that there are greater levels of hormone pollutants in our environment too. Also see the

Since this seems to have a more significant effect on women than men and women's health is a Cinderella science, I'm not convinced that this is really being looked at enough and in a cohesive way. Possibly because food manufacturers have something of a vested interest in some of this.

I am starting to wonder if this is on something of a tipping point because various issues are coming together in parallel in terms of almost hitting a perfect storm of a crisis.

I don't know, it could well be correlation rather than causation, but I don't think there has been adequate exploration of these correlations to rule out there being a link that isn't currently being taken seriously in the way it should be. There's too many unanswered questions here which I do think should have been looked at years ago and our society has a massive blind spot over this which we have long had the means to identify if there is a real issue here. It is the lack of research to see if there is more here, that I find troubling tbh. There should be piles of it and it still seems fairly limited. (Of course trans resistance to research doesn't help matters).

INeedAPensieve · 08/10/2024 14:55

My DS has just turned 6, is severely autistic (doesn't speak, isn't toilet trained, lots of sensory issues, screeches so isn't non verbal, just no words really). I'm in Scotland and I'm just really worried and scared about his future. I cry a lot. DH doesn't really know how much I cry.

It's DH's side that has the autism; him mildly, his sibling worse, his first cousin really severe and a few of his mum's cousins (also severe and one of their children, who was v severe and who sadly committed suicide a few years ago). Coming from a family that had none of this whatsoever (other issues but my side are all neuro typical and I didn't know anyone with autism growing up) I feel v much in the dark about it all and I'm scared. My DH's family basically 'dealt' with his sibling's autism by ignoring it completely. To this day his sibling doesn't have a diagnosis and actually doesn't know. It's so so obvious when you meet them but anyway, that was the choice made. My DS is FAR more severe so my MIL can't really deny it the way she did with her own child but it means I don't have a lot of family history and details from my DH and his side.

OuterSpaceCadet · 08/10/2024 14:57

So many vested interests in preventing or keeping quiet certain research outcomes. Be it for mental health treatments; "trans affirming health care"; or the shit some manufacturers package up and sell us as "food".

Bannedontherun · 08/10/2024 18:47

I wish to say i hope things get better for everyone on here it sounds so challenging. I also think all the external pressures such as internet, pressure to succeed at school, crowded environments are also in play for our children, especially those who are ND.

WaitingForMojo · 08/10/2024 19:07

There is a key difference between being trans and suffering from anorexia, though. Gender dysphoria is alleviated by transition, and lives are improved. Whereas weight loss doesn’t alleviate body dysmorphia. In fact, it usually worsens it.

WarriorN · 08/10/2024 19:12

WaitingForMojo · 08/10/2024 19:07

There is a key difference between being trans and suffering from anorexia, though. Gender dysphoria is alleviated by transition, and lives are improved. Whereas weight loss doesn’t alleviate body dysmorphia. In fact, it usually worsens it.

The evidence is not conclusive there. And it's driven by different things, such as porn for some.

There is evidence that it's socially contagious however. Especially among young women/ girls and those with autism

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WaitingForMojo · 09/10/2024 09:19

WarriorN · 08/10/2024 19:12

The evidence is not conclusive there. And it's driven by different things, such as porn for some.

There is evidence that it's socially contagious however. Especially among young women/ girls and those with autism

‘Autistic’, not ‘with autism’.

CautiousLurker · 09/10/2024 10:05

WaitingForMojo · 08/10/2024 19:07

There is a key difference between being trans and suffering from anorexia, though. Gender dysphoria is alleviated by transition, and lives are improved. Whereas weight loss doesn’t alleviate body dysmorphia. In fact, it usually worsens it.

Actually, the research where actual large scale follow up has taken place shows that, at best suggests transition may not alleviate gender dysphoria at all and, at worst, exacerbates suicidality. The sweet spot for suicide of trans identifying individuals (I recall reading this last year, so cannot provide the link, someone else may) is two years post transition. Ie, transition does not alleviate GD anymore than assisted dieting alleviates Anorexia/Bulimia.

In both cases (ex ED here) social contagion is a factor (at uni, we all went to the loo to vomit together and gave advice on how to do it quickly and effectively so there was little impact on make-up, I recall) but in both ED and GD, therapy is crucial to recovery, as is understanding the impact of puberty.

WarriorN · 09/10/2024 12:08

@WaitingForMojo actually people who do have diagnoses of autism disagree about whether it should be "with" or "autistic."

I have adult friends who prefer the former. Others who use both interchangeably.

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Changeforachange · 09/10/2024 14:08

WaitingForMojo · 08/10/2024 19:07

There is a key difference between being trans and suffering from anorexia, though. Gender dysphoria is alleviated by transition, and lives are improved. Whereas weight loss doesn’t alleviate body dysmorphia. In fact, it usually worsens it.

I thought it was neat thirds - third felt worse, third felt better, third felt no change either way? Can't remember who did that study, but certainly the Cass Report didn't declare transition was a cure.

Also, are you splitting out the middle aged men from prepubescent girls in this statement of fact? They are two vastly different groups who exhibit... different motivations.

My heart goes out to all the parents on here trying to navigate their loved ones through any kind of self harm. I can't imagine.

WaitingForMojo · 09/10/2024 19:48

WarriorN · 09/10/2024 12:08

@WaitingForMojo actually people who do have diagnoses of autism disagree about whether it should be "with" or "autistic."

I have adult friends who prefer the former. Others who use both interchangeably.

The majority prefer ‘autistic’. Identity first language should be the default, unless an individual tells you that they prefer otherwise, in which case that should be respected.

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