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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

For Women Scotland heading for Supreme Court

1000 replies

Imnobody4 · 07/10/2024 23:19

You can read the reasons etc in For Women Scotlands crowdfunder. They are launching this review
UK Supreme Court: The Definition of Sex in the Equality Act

The Inner House of the Court of Session Judgment

We believe the Equality Act was drafted on the basis of the ordinary, common law understanding of the biological differences between the two sexes. The protected characteristic of “sex” in the Equality Act is defined as a reference to a man or a woman, where man means “a male of any age” and woman means “a female of any age”. We think it is quite clear that these are distinct and separate groups and that “woman” is not a mixed-sex category.

However, in our recent judicial review, For Women Scotland v The Scottish Ministers [2023] CSIH 37, the Inner House took the opposite view and decided there is a relationship between the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) and Equality Act 2010 and held that the meaning of sex in the Equality Act incorporated the GRA framework.

The court decision stated that a person with a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) in their acquired gender has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment. Separately, they also possess the protected characteristic of sex according to the terms of their GRC and have a presumptive right to access the single-sex services of their acquired gender.

The Supreme Court will consider a request brought by For Women Scotland (FWS) who argue there are “strong grounds” for its challenge, which will almost certainly overturn contentious Scottish government legislation if successful.Campaigners for women’s “sex-based” rights reacted with delight to the news, including Magi Gibson, the poet, who posted on X/Twitter, that it was “game on” on in the “fight for the protection of women’s rights within the UK legal system”.Dennis Noel Kavanagh, a lawyer and the director of Gay Men’s Network, said: “Getting permission to go to the Supreme Court is really hard and very rare but FWS have it. The question ‘what is a woman’ in law will now be heard by our highest court. Massive news.”

www.thetimes.com/article/088ae0ce-fba9-4b97-8331-01a32195bef5?shareToken=3ada340957f5d2af2e20b01a7c15da3b

OP posts:
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Signalbox · 27/11/2024 10:51

SG appear to disagree with the Lady Haldane judgment don't they. They are saying TM will lose protection (which is at least consistent) but didn't Haldane say that TM would retain their protections?

Rightsraptor · 27/11/2024 10:51

Was she saying Ben C was using old guidance or law yesterday?

musicalfrog · 27/11/2024 10:52

Until death!

So no gender fluid then...

OneOfLittleConsequence · 27/11/2024 10:52

larklane17 · 27/11/2024 10:44

Agreement by all parties that there is no third sex and gender she says

Transphobes obviously

Boiledbeetle · 27/11/2024 10:52

Deadhouseplant · 27/11/2024 10:49

After yesterdays clarity, I’m back to not following this. This woman’s voice has a soporific affect unfortunately.

You are not alone, I'm going to have to stop multi tasking if I want to follow what she's saying.

ArabellaScott · 27/11/2024 10:52

Pregnant man scenario coming up later.

GCITC · 27/11/2024 10:52

She will come on to the pregnant man scenario later...

musicalfrog · 27/11/2024 10:52

The judges are ON IT

chilling19 · 27/11/2024 10:53

Again can't deviate from the script, because it is all bullshit,

ArabellaScott · 27/11/2024 10:53

'defined 'living as a woman' - changing name, changing drivers license' - Judge Rose thingummy

WitchyWitcherson · 27/11/2024 10:53

Loving the judges' spotlight - squirm away lady!

BettyFilous · 27/11/2024 10:53

WitchyWitcherson · 27/11/2024 10:42

I wonder how many TRAs didn't realise they'd lose the protections of their natal sex (tbh it's not something that's ever crossed my mind either until this case!). Any TIFs planning on getting pregnant might start to ponder whether this is actually good for them... Highlighting this movement's misogynistic tendencies. Females will lose out, males will gain more rights and protections.

I’ve been pondering this. If the person solemnly declares to live for the rest of life in their acquired gender, doesn’t the pregnant transman blow their argument that sex and gender are the same thing out of the water?

NeedToChangeName · 27/11/2024 10:53

Signalbox · 26/11/2024 16:12

Positive ending. Thanking Sex Matters for their assistance and judges found their submissions very helpful.

This is standard professional courtesy in court. I wouldn't read anything into it

ArabellaScott · 27/11/2024 10:54

Sorry, Lady Rose. I thought first name.

ILikeDungs · 27/11/2024 10:54

Don't think she is comfortable with these questions from Judges

OneOfLittleConsequence · 27/11/2024 10:54

These judges did some serious thinking last night. They’re hoping someone today can clarify the TRA position

GCITC · 27/11/2024 10:54

Yes, what does it mean to live as a woman?

The barrister hasn't dug down into that question...

Signalbox · 27/11/2024 10:54

I'm glad they keep coming back to the "living as a woman" question.

fanOfBen · 27/11/2024 10:54

She doesn't believe a word of what she's having to say, does she?

Mmmnotsure · 27/11/2024 10:54

c living as a woman asks judge

SG barrister - I haven't had time to drill down into that.

Wot?!

larklane17 · 27/11/2024 10:55

If someone has declared an intention to live permanently in aquired gender for rest of life then they wouldnt want the protection of their previous sex.

M'lady asks a question about trans men becoming pregnant not being entilted to protection of former female sex.

Lawyer will come back to that later.... but pressed by another judge. Then lawyer waffling a bit as she want to come back to it after ajournment ( doesnt know answer at the mo is my take )

Shortshriftandlethal · 27/11/2024 10:55

chilling19 · 27/11/2024 10:51

I'm already a bit confused tbh. But am listening anyway.

I think she's relying on her ability to blind everyone with her grasp of detail. I'm not convinced she believes in gender at all...she's just a very good lawyer.

ArabellaScott · 27/11/2024 10:55

She's refusing to look at definitions of sex?

ArabellaScott · 27/11/2024 10:56

'Addressed by addressing the consequences of a GRC being issued'

Shortshriftandlethal · 27/11/2024 10:56

All this submission is doing is making very plain and clear the mess that is the GRA.

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