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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Conservative leadership bids - Maternity pay comments

130 replies

LoobiJee · 29/09/2024 15:09

The Guardian is quoting Kemi Badenoch using the word “excessive” when talking about tax as ‘taking from one group of people and giving to another’, when questioned about maternity pay.

I mean, the whole point of tax is that it’s about taking money from individual citizens and businesses and using it to pay for things that might not be possible without taking and pooling those funds. Such as, let’s say, pandemic preparations.

She fails to mention that one of the reasons businesses are failing is because of the additional costs of imports and exports post-Brexit.

She also fails to mention that there was a time when houses didn’t costs six times your salary, when rents were lower, when council houses were being built, and when the UK’s economic infrastructure was owned by the tax payer not by overseas multinational corporations.

Quote from the Guardian coverage below.

Badenoch says maternity pay benefits 'excessive'

Kemi Badenoch has said she thinks maternity pay is too high.

In an interview with Times Radio, she was asked if she thought maternity pay was at the right level. She replied:

Maternity pay varies, depending on who you work for. But statutory maternity pay is a function of tax, tax comes from people who are working. We’re taking from one group of people and giving to another. This, in my view, is excessive.

Businesses are closing, businesses are not starting in the UK, because they say that the burden of regulation is too high.

When asked to confirm that she thinks maternity pay is excessive, she replied:

I think it’s gone too far the other way, in terms of general business regulation. We need to allow businesses, especially small businesses, to make more of those decisions.

The exact amount of maternity pay, in my view, is neither here nor there. We need to make sure that we are creating an enviroment where people can work and people can have more freedom to make their own decisions.

When it was put to her that level of maternity pay was important for people who could not otherwise afford to have a baby, Badenoch said:

We need to have more personal responsibility. There was a time when there wasn’t any maternity pay and people were having more babies.

Statutory maternity pay is 90% of average weekly earnings for the first six weeks, and then £184 per week, or 90% of average pay, for the next 33 weeks.

Badenoch says she practises what she preaches in this regard. According to Blue Ambition, Michael Ashcroft’s useful and mostly positive biography of Badenoch, when she was head of digital operations at the Spectator, before becoming an MP, and she became pregnant with her second child, she resigned instead of taking maternity leave. “She told me she thought it would be unfair to ask us to keep her job open while she was on maternity leave,” Fraser Nelson, the Spectator editor, is quoted in the book as saying. “She would have been within her rights not to have done that.”

Badenoch might have been helped in making this decision by the fact that her husband is an investment banker.

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Shortshriftandlethal · 29/09/2024 15:31

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/conservative-party-conference-tory-leadership-latest-news-fvbxhbv9r

"Kemi Badenoch has appeared to row back on comments that maternity pay “has gone too far”.The leadership candidates and shadow communities secretary posted on social media that “of course I believe in maternity pay”, and said that she was referring to excessive regulation on business"

Conservative Party conference: Badenoch praises Israel’s ‘moral clarity’

Tory leadership hopefuls Robert Jenrick, Kemi Badenoch, Tom Tugendhat and James Cleverly make their pitch to members in Birmingham

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/conservative-party-conference-tory-leadership-latest-news-fvbxhbv9r

Shortshriftandlethal · 29/09/2024 15:34

To be fair she didn't say she thought "maternity pay was excessive" - but that she thought busines regulations can be excessive.

SwissBall · 29/09/2024 15:41

It was interesting that Robert Jenrick, who seems to be tacking hard to the right, disagreed with her.

Shortshriftandlethal · 29/09/2024 15:51

It's difficult to get a clear sense of the leadership candidates at present because the media are feverishly trying to spin their every word.

Yes, Jenrick certainly seems to be going for the Reform vote - with what I believe is a fundamental, or maybe overly simplistic, misunderstanding of why the Tories were actually voted out

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 29/09/2024 16:14

Shortshriftandlethal · 29/09/2024 15:34

To be fair she didn't say she thought "maternity pay was excessive" - but that she thought busines regulations can be excessive.

Edited

Yes. But she can't say anything without it being recast as something else for which she is lambasted. Feels like there's a concerted effort behind it.

CassieMaddox · 29/09/2024 16:32

She's not really doing a great job in her leadership bid.

First saying she "became working class" when she worked in McDonalds. Then claiming she had accepted Ed Sheeran tickets and various other hospitality "for work" while calling Labour hypocrites. Now this maternity pay comment.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/kemi-badenoch-maternity-pay-criticism/

I don't personally think she is capable of being LOTO, she's got too much of a track record of saying and doing stupid things. But I hope she gets elected as it will probably put the Tories in the bin for good.

Kemi Badenoch slammed by leadership rivals for saying maternity pay is 'excessive' at Tory conference

Conservative leadership candidate Kemi Badenoch has been criticised for saying that statutory maternity pay is "excessive" in Britain.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/kemi-badenoch-maternity-pay-criticism

DworkinWasRight · 29/09/2024 16:37

It’s very unclear what she’s saying - does she mean maternity pay is excessive or that business regulation is excessive? I suppose she’s another one of those small-state Tories.

Northernlass44 · 29/09/2024 16:39

I put a post up sorry hadn't seen this but don't tell me anyone that conservatives give a shit about women all them transphobic sort that liked her thought she cares about women i don't think so they don't think poor people need money do they

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 29/09/2024 16:41

Shortshriftandlethal · 29/09/2024 15:34

To be fair she didn't say she thought "maternity pay was excessive" - but that she thought busines regulations can be excessive.

Edited

"Maternity pay varies, depending on who you work for. But statutory maternity pay is a function of tax, tax comes from people who are working. We’re taking from one group of people and giving to another. This, in my view, is excessive."

That is her quote. How is that saying business regulations are what is excessive? She is clearly saying that paying statutory maternity pay is an excessive thing for the government to do.

Lenelovich · 29/09/2024 17:25

Shortshriftandlethal · 29/09/2024 15:51

It's difficult to get a clear sense of the leadership candidates at present because the media are feverishly trying to spin their every word.

Yes, Jenrick certainly seems to be going for the Reform vote - with what I believe is a fundamental, or maybe overly simplistic, misunderstanding of why the Tories were actually voted out

Edited

Aren’t they just. Look at the frothing over the LP in the media.

Lenelovich · 29/09/2024 17:27

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 29/09/2024 16:14

Yes. But she can't say anything without it being recast as something else for which she is lambasted. Feels like there's a concerted effort behind it.

Oh definitely. Happening with Labour too. Definitely a concerted effort to smear anything and everything they do.

illinivich · 29/09/2024 17:47

Isnt this just a version of taking the winter fuel allowance off pensioners - tax income for the government is limited, therefore politicians have to make decisions on who does and doesnt get benefit payments?

Leafstamp · 29/09/2024 17:49

She’s posted a clarification on X:

“Of course maternity pay isn’t excessive…no mother of 3 kids thinks that.

But we must talk about the burden of excessive business regulation otherwise we might as well be the Labour Party.

My campaign is different from others because tell hard truths. It is how we will renew our party, our thinking and our politics.“

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 29/09/2024 17:52

Leafstamp · 29/09/2024 17:49

She’s posted a clarification on X:

“Of course maternity pay isn’t excessive…no mother of 3 kids thinks that.

But we must talk about the burden of excessive business regulation otherwise we might as well be the Labour Party.

My campaign is different from others because tell hard truths. It is how we will renew our party, our thinking and our politics.“

How does "But statutory maternity pay is a function of tax, tax comes from people who are working. We’re taking from one group of people and giving to another. This, in my view, is excessive." mean that business regulation is excessive? If that's what she meant then what on earth was she talking about?
She is very obviously saying that government paying maternity pay is an excessive thing to do.

LoobiJee · 29/09/2024 17:55

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 29/09/2024 16:41

"Maternity pay varies, depending on who you work for. But statutory maternity pay is a function of tax, tax comes from people who are working. We’re taking from one group of people and giving to another. This, in my view, is excessive."

That is her quote. How is that saying business regulations are what is excessive? She is clearly saying that paying statutory maternity pay is an excessive thing for the government to do.

Based on the Guardian extract, I think her plan in that interview was to focus on a standard Conservative candidate pitch of:
> cutting red tape strangling business
> cutting tax
> reducing the “nanny state”
> individuals standing on their own two feet
etc etc
You know, the usual sort of thing.

Then, when she got that maternity pay question, she carried on in the same vein, with the predictable results. The question is: how did she fail to spot the bear trap she was walking into with that mat pay question?

Another one is: does she not actually understand what life is like for most families? Or perhaps she does, but genuinely thinks that only families with enough spare funds to cover a year on zero income should have children.

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ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 29/09/2024 18:03

Leafstamp · 29/09/2024 17:49

She’s posted a clarification on X:

“Of course maternity pay isn’t excessive…no mother of 3 kids thinks that.

But we must talk about the burden of excessive business regulation otherwise we might as well be the Labour Party.

My campaign is different from others because tell hard truths. It is how we will renew our party, our thinking and our politics.“

"For instance, there's a new thing I've been seeing on social media about maternity pay and that I don't want that. Of course that's ridiculous. Of course I think maternity pay is important, but I was answering a different question, a journalist interrupts, and people think they've got a gotcha. Those sorts of things don't faze me. People can ask me all the tough questions they want. I will answer them. But we need to make sure that we are being honest and we are not being misrepresented on immigration or maternity pay or whatever"

x.com/kemibadenoch/status/1840413421222633820?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Guavafish1 · 29/09/2024 18:04

They want a low tax state

Which means low or no benefits including winter fuel allowance and statutory maternity pay.

LoobiJee · 29/09/2024 18:04

Leafstamp · 29/09/2024 17:49

She’s posted a clarification on X:

“Of course maternity pay isn’t excessive…no mother of 3 kids thinks that.

But we must talk about the burden of excessive business regulation otherwise we might as well be the Labour Party.

My campaign is different from others because tell hard truths. It is how we will renew our party, our thinking and our politics.“

There’s some muddled thinking (or very unclear communication) from her in that tweet.

Non-statutory maternity pay is a choice made by the employer. So that isn’t excessive government regulation.

Statutory maternity pay (if I’m remembering correctly) is reimbursed by the government. So that’s not an excessive regulatory burden either, if I’m correct.

The thing that is imposed on employers by legislation is: the prevention of discrimination on the basis of pregnancy and maternity.

If she thinks employers should be even more able to get away with sacking pregnant women than they are already, then she should be upfront about that.

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LoobiJee · 29/09/2024 18:07

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 29/09/2024 18:03

"For instance, there's a new thing I've been seeing on social media about maternity pay and that I don't want that. Of course that's ridiculous. Of course I think maternity pay is important, but I was answering a different question, a journalist interrupts, and people think they've got a gotcha. Those sorts of things don't faze me. People can ask me all the tough questions they want. I will answer them. But we need to make sure that we are being honest and we are not being misrepresented on immigration or maternity pay or whatever"

x.com/kemibadenoch/status/1840413421222633820?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

"For instance, there's a new thing I've been seeing on social media about maternity pay and that I don't want that. Of course that's ridiculous.”

Anyone know what this “new thing” on social media is?

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LoobiJee · 29/09/2024 18:26

Too late to edit my last post. I’ve now read the guardian article about the follow up video which the “new social media thing” quote comes from, and I see that the social media thing she’s referring to is this afternoon’s media discussions of her describing maternity pay as excessive.

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SirChenjins · 29/09/2024 18:29

If she genuinely thinks it's excessive then she's an idiot. If she doesn't then she needs to work on her communication skills. Neither show her as someone capable of leading.

illinivich · 29/09/2024 18:38

SirChenjins · 29/09/2024 18:29

If she genuinely thinks it's excessive then she's an idiot. If she doesn't then she needs to work on her communication skills. Neither show her as someone capable of leading.

Someone up thread quoted her tweet where she said that she doesnt think maternity pay is excessive.

SirChenjins · 29/09/2024 19:24

Yea, she sought to backtrack. She still hasn’t clarified what she meant and she still thought it appropriate to give this ill-thought out speech on mat pay. My pp still stands.

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 29/09/2024 19:26

More coverage. It does seem from the clip that two topics were being spoke about together.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/did-kemi-badenoch-really-call-maternity-pay-excessive/

IwantToRetire · 29/09/2024 20:51

I was going to start a thread called "Oh no Kemi!" because it seems that in her bid to get the Conservative Party membership vote (the Leadership is in their hands) she has taken the "I'm being straightforward and honest" a bit far.

Or is seriously niave as to how her comments will be reported.

The maternity comment was about how Government benefits are actually funded by tax payers. And that she thinks maternity pay shouldn't be the responsibility of the state (well at least not at the current level). So it is in a way a bit like Labour saying tax payers shouldn't have to fund pensioners fuel bills.

But whoever is in her campaign team needs to have a chat with her about even if she thinks she is being really clear about what she is saying the media will go on first impressions.

So far she has managed the following headlines:

Working at McDonalds made me working class
https://news.sky.com/story/kemi-badenoch-claims-she-became-working-class-after-securing-a-job-at-mcdonalds-as-a-teenager-13217266

Tories 'talked right but governed left'
https://news.sky.com/story/conservative-leadership-race-kemi-badenoch-says-tories-talked-right-but-governed-left-as-james-cleverly-vows-to-resurrect-rwanda-scheme-13208360

MPs taking 'freebies' is way to spend time with family
https://news.sky.com/story/kemi-badenoch-defends-mps-taking-freebies-as-way-to-spend-time-with-family-13220838

Rioting shows UK needs to ‘start again’ on integration
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/kemi-badenoch-robert-jenrick-southport-conservative-priti-patel-b2590482.html

Not all cultures equally valid
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg56zlge8g5o

Maternity pay has gone too far
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c781m9v4255o

Who knows what headline grabbing comment she will come out with tomorrow.

But does suggest (as she is favourite with Tory members) that she thinks moving the Tory party further right than it already is is a vote winner.

I suppose if her politics are those of the free market, her remarks aren't that suprising.

I wonder if she will make any comments about sex based rights, or think this isn't a vote winner with the Tory grass roots.

Kemi Badenoch defends MPs taking 'freebies' as way to spend time with family

The former minister vying to be the next leader of the Conservative Party stands by her own acceptance of free tickets to sporting and music events, but accuses Labour of "hypocrisy".

https://news.sky.com/story/kemi-badenoch-defends-mps-taking-freebies-as-way-to-spend-time-with-family-13220838