Moira Deeming defamation trial - Thread 2 from Australia

[TheSandgroper]

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5167282-in-australia-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-now-on?page=40&reply=138525746

Tribunal Tweets Substack https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/moira-deeming-v-john-pesutto-a-case?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share. Thanks to @BezMills

Thanks to everyone on thread 1. I am pleased it generated such interest and conversations. I have learnt a lot from many very bright women.

What did you think of Jenrick's plan re: star of David? Would you ban that too? How about other religious symbols?

What about poppies/Union Jacks?

I think banning anything is a bad plan to be honest.

All public servants are banned from using their work to favour their preferred political groups, their mates, their families. It's been that way for years. For most it's a matter of gross misconduct (except evidently for politicians as we're currently seeing).
The fact that queer theory / political lobbyists have been able to influence the civil service, the NHS, schools (despite their legal requirement to be politically neutral) and the rest is the scandal that needs some impartial analysis of how this has happened.

Flags of other nations should definitely be banned unless there is a state visit. The Union Jack is the flag of the UK so of course should remain.

I think banning anything is a bad plan to be honest.

So not a fan of safeguarding then? Or an impartial civil service? Or national security? Or an environment conducive to work?

Over here in N Ireland, flags and (political) emblems are commonly prohibited via workplace policy because they can be divisive, sectarian, or cause disharmony. I think it’s a policy that could be implemented in GB too.

You are correct, Cassie, it was conservative Christians here in Victoria who initially attempted to raise awareness of the materials published by senior members of the Australian Research Centre in Sex, Health and Society.

What is your point?

My point is that very religious people often have reasons that are nothing to do with "safeguarding" for getting involved in how schools teach SRE. Usually to do with notions of "sin" and being concerned for children's souls.

I like living in a secular society and don't think religion should have any place in teaching children about relationships so I'm very wary when I see religious people getting involved.

Cassie, your comment appears to be a straw man argument. I wasn't talking about Christians attempting to deliver relationship curriculum to Australian school children.

The Christians that were 'involved' in this instance were those that spoke out about paedophile apologist writings from those in positions of leadership at the Centre which produced the Safe Schools curriculum.

I also enjoy living in a secular society, but I'm very grateful to those Christians here in Victoria who were the very first to publicly engage in this particular controversy.

I'm off with my family for a day at the Royal Melbourne Show, so I look forward to reading updates on Moira's trial when I return.

Have a great day, @mothra, it sounds fun!

The secret recording made by Deeming of the meeting with Pesutto and Crozier on 23 February 2023 was played to the court. 30-35mins long.

Crozier is on the stand. She’s been the deputy leader of Vic Libs since 2018. She needs to do up another button on her shirt before she flashes her boobs or bra. It seems to be her style. Not appropriate.

Crysanthou is laying her breadcrumbs to lead Crozier into a trap, like she has with the other politicians. Crozier is getting defensive. Crozier is giving much shorter answers than the men. Crysanthou has already told Crozier to answer her question. She was avoiding giving a straight answer.

Crozier has admitted to watching some of the court case, including Pesutto. I believe that they aren’t supposed to until they’ve appeared in court. She’s also admitted to talking to Pesutto but claims to only be about daily political things, not the defamation case. Lol, sure.

Now we’re hearing about Deeming not attending a parliamentary meeting that Crozier granted her permission to not attend. Crozier assumed it was a medical appointment for one of her four children. It was for a hair appointment on the day of her maiden speech. She subsequently scolded Deeming like a child. Crysanthou is asking if Crozier understands the demands of balancing 4 children, full time work and personal appointments. Ouch. Crozier became upset (crocodile tears?) and said that sadly no she doesn’t know. I’m guessing she has no children.

Now onto Deeming’s maiden speech and Pesutto dealing with media fallout from it.

Crysanthou has told Crozier off again, and asked if she’s trying to say as much criticism as possible of her client (Deeming). She’s reminded her that the purpose of her answers in court is to add to the information in her affidavit and not to further criticise her client. Crysanthou is in no mood for bullshitting politicians today.

Last night the 7:30 Report on the ABC did a story on the defamation case. I think they’ve opened themselves up to another defamation case by the crap they spoke.

For context the 7:30 Report is supposed to be amongst the highest quality current affairs program on Australian tv, especially because it’s on the ABC, our government funded “impartial” network. Crysanthou has won a defamation case against them before: last year on the behalf of Heston Russell.

Anyway, the intro called Deeming/LWS anti-trans, and gave no context to Angie Jones’ infamous tweet. They showed Jones and associated her with Nazis. Jones is furious about it on Twitter. The whole tone was off. It was like it was a joke and a puff piece story. Here’s the story:

Now we’re onto the LWS rally and the bloody gatecrashing neo Nazis.

@FeralWoman

Now we’re hearing about Deeming not attending a parliamentary meeting that Crozier granted her permission to not attend. Crozier assumed it was a medical appointment for one of her four children. It was for a hair appointment on the day of her maiden speech. She subsequently scolded Deeming like a child. Crysanthou is asking if Crozier understands the demands of balancing 4 children, full time work and personal appointments. Ouch. Crozier became upset (crocodile tears?) and said that sadly no she doesn’t know. I’m guessing she has no children.

This is a bit offensive, Feral. (And I have children.)

Crysanthou's line of questioning here was also somewhat regressive. Even though Deeming has four children, her husband is a stay-at-home father. Most working mothers are able to balance their working and personal commitments even with the other parent working as well.

@MessinaBloom Not intended to be offensive. Just my distrust of politicians, especially the ones who have appeared so far in this case.

Crozier was finished by the start of lunch. They went for an extra 10mins to finish her questioning. I don’t think there was anything else particularly surprising or important from her.

Now Alexander Woff is being questioned. He was and still is one of Pesutto’s communications and media team. He’s got Pesutto’s waffleness when
speaking. He’s referring to everyone by their first names instead of Mr/Mrs/Ms Surname.

So one of his roles was/is to monitor what’s happening in the media and online to do with Pesutto but didn’t/doesn’t follow all of the MPs on Twitter. He doesn’t use FB or Instagram or any other social media apart from Twitter. That seems strange to me. A lot of community engagement happens on FB, especially with the older half of the population. Other duties include drafting statements, distributing them to the media, organising press conferences and compiling a daily summary of media mentions for Pesutto.

So now we have an example of the discriminatory belief that people who are religious, Christians, conservatives, right wing, aka “the bad people” 🙄 are motivated by things other than the reasons atheists, socialists, left wing, aka “the good people” 🙄🙄 are when it comes to raising concerns around children.

Left wing atheist concerned about safeguarding? Pure, good reasons, of course.

Right wing Christian concerned about safeguarding? They must be up to something no good 😒

Can people not remotely entertain the notion that this group might be concerned about child safeguarding purely because they’re concerned about child safeguarding, or concerned about gender ideology and medicalisation of children, for the same reasons everyone else is?

It’s such a pathetic idea that people can’t be concerned about the same things for the same reasons purely because of other held beliefs.

I was answering your question with my opinion. A straw man is where you create a false representation of someone else's argument to destroy. So not the same thing at all. HTH.

Did I specify Christians? I didn't, because my issue isn't with Christians, it's with religion in RSE
I said, and I believe, that religious people can often get involved in how RSE is taught due to their beliefs about sin, sex before marriage, homosexuality, appropriate behaviours for men and women,modesty etc. I don't want those religious aspects being taught to children as fact.

In this case it was Christians getting involved. It could equally be Muslims, Hindus, Jews or anyone else.

Also just so you are aware, I'm not an atheist. I'm non-religious. Agnostic probably best description.

Interesting the mention of religion is so triggering for you though. Why is that?

Crozier is on the stand. She’s been the deputy leader of Vic Libs since 2018. She needs to do up another button on her shirt before she flashes her boobs or bra. It seems to be her style. Not appropriate.

Pretty sexist to comment on a women's clothes when they appear in public

I am with mess. I don't know what SC was thinking snarking at Crozier about if she has children. Wholly inappropriate and not something that's come up in relation to the men. Yuck.

So I'm keen to find out who did the amazing research (definitely not just C+P from a blue-hair's edit to wikipedia, oh no)

How would you distinguish religious beliefs from strongly held values?

Aren't most mainstream Christian beliefs in Western society based in a commitment to the importance of love, family, protection of childhood 'innocence', honouring vows and promises etc. It's not so much about '100 virgins in heaven', or an 'eye for eye'.

How would strong Socialist beliefs, for example, be qualitatively any different?

bez I know you think KJK is a "stone cold legend" but really, one doesn't have to dig very far to find her saying and doing far right things.

A quick look at her Twitter account is usually enough to find something pretty outrageous (away from trans issues)

All the material is up and the screenshot of her mic-ing up one of the Capitol rioters is a bit (that person being a man, too, so not really about "letting women speak")

Interesting the mention of religion is so triggering for you though. Why is that?

Why do you think it is “triggering”? Why would it matter to you if it was? Are you implying that I have a religious motivation to my posts and that is a negative thing in your eyes?

They wouldn't, but they also wouldn't be taught in SRE.

I have never seen socialists organising and protesting because SRE is teaching "anti socialist values" so it's a bit of a false argument anyway.

Holy Tony was big on the old Catholicism, the overlap between UK socialism and the values coming from the CoE pulpit crew is huge. It's not terribly comfortable for the atheist tendency but it is what it is.

Eh? Please do find me an example of socialists insisting children are taught in line with "socialist values", otherwise it just sounds like you are trying to distracted from the original point