Moira Deeming defamation trial - Thread 2 from Australia

[TheSandgroper]

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5167282-in-australia-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-now-on?page=40&reply=138525746

Tribunal Tweets Substack https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/moira-deeming-v-john-pesutto-a-case?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share. Thanks to @BezMills

Thanks to everyone on thread 1. I am pleased it generated such interest and conversations. I have learnt a lot from many very bright women.

I don't think HQ would think asking people to account for their argument, in very measured terms, is 'hostility'.

It's interesting that some posters evidently feel insulting people with pointless slurs that add nothing is fine and not "hostile" at all.

The women didn’t know that the violent thug ‘protesters’ were going to get to attack them and the animals either. Imagine not condemning actual violence. If anything is a hate crime… . Reminds me of the brown shirts, even though a lot of then were in black attire. Pesutto, didn’t seem to see the problem whatsoever with that.

Yet, the other ‘dressed in black’ group which the police (yes, the police) allowed through to stand on steps near the Women’s meeting were to be attributed to and used to smear the women.

I’m just a bit curious, if John Pesutto and others who are trying to blame women for the NN group being escorted to that spot near them by police, why don’t they have a problem with the police, or the supposed NN in the police force. The police force which long ago were supposed to operate without fear or favour. Has he said a boo about the suitable of a self proclaimed NN in the police force of the state in which he lives. Actual agents of the state which have power over people, and how they enforce the law on the street. So, is his main problem doesn’t appear to me to be with Nism and the NN, but women.

So, is his main problem doesn’t appear to me to be with Nism and the NN, but women.
🎯

OK. There was a great post on the last thread explaining about the impact of persistent questioning of individuals. And there are numerous posters (as is always the way on these threads) who are no longer engaging after what appears to be a persistent pattern of questioning and misunderstanding of their posts.

I personally am fed up with digs about name changing/"apropos of nothing TRAs say this"/ board splitting/ thread monitors/ "soc fems" etc. I just want to be able to discuss the trial without the aggro.

Feel free to ask MNHQ, I hope they say they don't want an echo chamber.

Actually, do you know what, I've had an "mn calling" email and I really don't want to be banned, so I'll be off.

This is for those reading along:

https://fb.watch/uPY5aWyPBE/

Sorry for the fb link.

This is the link for the feed from therealsukshan. He seems to be a bit like the auditors in the UK where he will turn up to events and livestream it.

The first nazi mention I found was at 4.05 minutes on a live feed where KJK arrived at 28.49 minutes. They were video'ed at 5.30 minutes. They were well in place by this time so already there.

The NSN, Neo nazis, moved to the middle of the street in front of Parliament House at 36.00 minutes. They didn't move to the stairs 'beside' the women's speaking until 50.48 minutes.

They were walked out by police at 1:06.00.

So, they were there longer than 60 minutes and were not corralled by police at all.

What is important to note here is that when the neo nazis started to move to the steps and were saluting, this was the time of the transgender activists disruptions. In fact, directly as those men were doing those salutes around the 45 -50 minute marks, the organisers of the LWS rally were busy with being attacked by several trans activists that had infiltrated their group. They were checking the activists were gone and they were reorganising their stewards much closer to the stage.

Then close after that and finishing just before the police walked these men out, Katherine Deves was speaking.

Whether you choose to believe that the women saw much or any of these men saluting or whether they just heard about it after, when you look at the crowd that surrounded the organisers, it is hard to confidently state what they saw or did not.

It is important to get original source feeds before confidently commenting on what women must have seen.

The women didn’t know that the violent thug ‘protesters’ were going to get to attack them and the animals either. Imagine not condemning actual violence. If anything is a hate crime… . Reminds me of the brown shirts, even though a lot of then were in black attire. Pesutto, didn’t seem to see the problem whatsoever with that.

Exactly. He couldn't have given less of a shit.

I can’t link that as I’m not on X.

KJK doesn’t promote N ideology. People actively introducing, or promoting, a scheme which provides a space where paedophiles can more easily contact children (without the usual safeguards) is enabling said paedophiles in their endeavours.

I wryly suggest the priests who moved paedophiles along to another parish, after they had abused children in the the previous ones, could now be regarded as progressives before their time. By the followers of such an ideological stance, and the ‘intergenerational sex’ supporters. They moved predators on to new and unsuspecting congregations. The veneer of respectability not immediately alerting anyone to the danger. Same as something in schools which is going to be seen as trustworthy to unsuspecting parents.

And to think there were long investigations into the problems of the past, and reports made as to how improvements could be made and implemented in order to protect children. Higher levels of safeguarding to make children sure were not as vulnerable to abuse like this again. It is mind boggling to see the individuals and organisations who now preen themselves as progressive to throw it all asunder to the detriment of the safety of children.

No doubt the source of future scandals. All obvious and avoidable.

I watched this the other day. They don't muck around and they really do say it as it is. It is refreshing.

Edie Wyatt especially has a great turn of phrase.

I'm about a quarter of the way through.

They are really good at identifying the dynamics. And the way that Deeming is supposed to know everything from a screenshot. And that somehow it's women's place to be a bit nicer, or not be bolshy, or not take the piss.

And the way she's been questioned is in a completely different way and has completely different expectations to the way a man is being questioned.

They are likening it to a rape trial, where the victim is the one who is actually on trial

I was a bit concerned at the involvement of Jeff Kennett (a ex- Victorian Premier) who seemed to be overly involved. I haven't worked out whether he leaked what probably should have been confidential information or what he did.

It seems Jeff is involved in funding Pesutto's cases too. I seem to remember that the federal branch said something to the effect of 'nah mate, you are on your own!'

And how interesting to also see that Sue C also mentioned that Georgie Crozier did not tell Moira Deeming the true nature of that meeting. Sue even pointed out that considering the nature, and the predetermined decisions made, that Moira Deeming would have been best served with someone there to support (and certainly take notes - my addition) her.

As was mentioned in the other thread by several posters.

And that Pesutto did not consider that he needed to extend Moira Deeming that care or that courtesy. It really does show how he viewed Moira in stark light.

I'm guessing from the lack of posts that Pesutto did a good job of defending himself.

Lol, no, he did a great job of making himself look like a massive dickhead. Uncaring, arrogant, misogynist, and generally a wanker. So in short, like Liberal Party politician.

Crysanthou’s questioning of him was a joy to hear.

I’ve been enjoying Kit Kowalski’s tweets. She’s mentioned some of the great points made today.

Dirae/megzzzzzzzz on Twitter had some great things to say too.
https://archive.is/TGS37

Such a shame that Angie Jones and KJK can’t do Pesutto for defamation again. He’s talked some absolute shit about them in the court case.

What struck me today was how Pesutto didn’t and still doesn’t GAF about context. The context of Angie Jones’ unfairly vilified tweet, the Nazi Barbie PFP from KJK, the air quotes used by AJ in the champagne video (how very dare they drink champagne instead of making their hair shirts) when referring to the neo Nazis, and even what Deeming actually said at the LWS rally. He didn’t know then, didn’t watch the video and still doesn’t know.

FWIW AJ used air quotes because she thinks that calling the neo Nazis Nazis diminishes what the actual Nazis did.

By the way.

At 50 minutes Rukshan says that the people in his comments are saying that the nazis are men from ANTIFA pretending. There was a lot of confusion about this until the National Socialist Network confirmed it was them.

And in glimpses between the 45-52 minute mark but certainly at 51.05 as the men are unfolding their banner, there is a frame where you can see a women and a man holding a banner that is certainly not part of the women's group.

It reads: 'PROTECT OUR CHILDREN. Stop the moral decay of society. Silence is no longer an option'.

It is there amongst the red Victorian flags and what looks like a Eureka flag (at least two people have these flags on a single pole) and Australian flags. There is a woman there with a sign on her back (looks to be beating a straw or ribbon drum thing) saying 'expose the 28' which refers to exposing 28 high profile pedophiles identified by a Royal Commission whose names are suppressed.

This is the remnants of that group that protests on the steps regularly. These are not the LWS rally, although the dude who speaks to Rukshan seems to think that they are connected. They are not part of the LWS rally although they might have gone and listened. They had their own protest and the NSN men joined that.

At around 51.07 a group of photographers were there ready to take pictures of NSN unrolling their banner behind the banner about PROTECT OUR CHILDREN.

The NSN knew exactly who was there, right where they got onto the stairs. It is really quite clear when you view Rukshan's footage, they fitted very well in with that group that was just finishing their time slot up. That was who they were 'supporting'.

Considering Rukshan's audience was saying on FB that some of them thought these men were ANTIFA dressed up, I remember this being part of the confusion - hence the air quotes.

But, yes... the video footage has been out there to review, yet, Pesutto and his team don't ever seem to have done the work. He didn't watch video footage and as you say, he still doesn't know.

Let me get this straight. This Pesutto character is the leader of the Victoria Liberal Party right? How shallow is their talent pool?

Fuck me, isn't it though.

although, it's replicated across-the-board. Sorry, globe

how very dare they drink champagne instead of making their hair shirts)

This is very clear from both Pesutto and his barrister!

This podcast discussion is fascinating and very insightful - thanks for posting the link 👍

Well the news papers are full of Kennett’s involvement.

https://archive.ph/NBagG

The chilling effect of Kennett leaking the names of supportive to Deeming MP’s is something that doesn’t bode well.

archive.ph/xv2ei

“The court was shown an article published in the Australian Financial Review three days before the defamation trial started where Kennett said he was aware of MPs who had made affidavits in support of Deeming and described them as “disloyal, and perhaps even treacherous”.

“Kennett said in the article that those MPs would be “dealt with in due course when pre-selections are called for the next election”.”

And Pesutto released the information, according to the transcript, to assure senior Libs that he was not ‘unreasonable’? Fuck.… why was Moira Deeming expelled and not suspended as planned? That is right… for bringing the Liberal Party into disrepute.

I think a great proportion of the damage being done here seems to be the responsibility of the Victorian Leadership team and not Moira Deeming.

CassieMaddox The connection between the Safe Schools program and paedophile apologists is alarmingly real.

The deputy director of the Centre for Sex, Health and Society at LaTrobe University from whence the 'Safe Schools' program originated (at the behest of government) is Dr Gary Dowsett. In 2016, former Nationals MP George Christensen accused Dr Dowsett in Parliament of advocating pedophilia.

Christensen cited an article by Dr Dowsett, published when he was a school teacher in 1982, in which Dowsett recounted having “a friend, a pedophile, who is working very hard on making sense out of his relationships with boys”.

“These relations consist of, among other things, a large amount of nurture and support for these boys, a real caring for their welfare and growth,” he wrote in the journal Gay Information.

“We have three legal/social questions to win: custody rights for gay men and lesbians; the legal right of pedophiles and their young lovers; and, finally, the sexual rights of children as a whole. Those gains must be won for the kids, too. We need to protect the youthful partners in pedophilia against the legal and social management systems which treat them as delinquents.”

Dr Dowsett wrote that many mothers and fathers found their children “sexual” and activities such as cuddling, bathing and breastfeeding “generate sexual responses in their parents”.

“How different, then, is that gentle, tentative sexuality between parent and child from the love of a pedophile and his/her lover?” he wrote. “From all accounts, and from many academic studies — some worse than others — that kind of love, warmth, support and nurture is an important part of the pedophilic relationship.”

Conservative Christian blogger Bill Muehlenberg wrote this piece in 2018, which contains a link to the original source material quoted above. It is an eye-opening read. billmuehlenberg.com/2018/04/19/safe-schools-and-the-war-against-children-and-parents/

Dr Dowsett has never commented on his original article, on whether he still thinks kids need to 'win' 'sexual rights', or on whether he thinks it's justified for parents to be concerned about whether his Centre's Safe Schools program might reflect some of this ideology.

Dowsett retired in August this year from the Centre for Sex, Health and Society, and will continue his research there as an Emeritus Professor. Nice.

I wonder if it will be damaging to Deeming that CPAC Australia have revealed on their website today that KJK will be a speaker along with her ( they have been teasing 'a worldwide phenomenon').

And speaking of funding, apparently Deeming is funded by big-pocketed Conservatives such as Clive Palmer and Warren Mundine. Sue Chrysanthou SC isn't cheap by any means. I'm an admirer of hers after following another recent high-profile case she was involved with.

.

Sorry, tried to post this