Scouts recommend mixed sex sleeping accommodation

[ArabellaScott]

'To make sure all members feel included you can:

Make a range of different sleeping options available to all members, including mixed-sex accommodation, single and multiple occupancy tents or dorms, or compartment tents with single rooms in them that a young person could discreetly use.'

https://www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/equity-diversity-and-inclusion/lgbtqplus/trans-and-gender-identity/

Could some clever Mumsnetter please devise a single key shortcut so that I can write 'Oh FFS 🤦‍♀️' with one touch of a button

I'd love a FFS key!

But I'd settle for the escape key delivering what it promises

Trans feels, trump raped children. There you go.

Asked a male colleague who's been a senior Scout leader for many years if they allow mixed sexed facilities on camp and got an instant emphatic No Fucking Way.

So hopefully there's enough common sense experience on the ground to counteract whatever shit comes out of the EDI lead in Head Office.

Thanks. Interesting that some are claiming it's not a problem and has happened for a long time.

Idon't think guidance like this is necessarily wrong. And it's not so much about inclusion as about flexibility about really different kinds of facilities and set ups that might be encountered.

I don't see it as meaning that it is recommended that you have small mixed groups alone in tents, for example.

But there could be a scenario perhaps where all the kids and adults were bedding down in a large open room, with access to same sex or private hanging/bathroom spaces. Or, as happened to me once, where the kids were actually sleeping out under the stars.

It's not always great to have guidance that is too inflexible when you have the potential for such a vast number of scenarios. The more important thing is there are robust procedures and principles for deciding how to manage the actual situation and what the risks are and how to mitigate them.

Yes... we aren't saying that two Scouts of opposite sex can share a small tent.

We are saying that there are events were many Scouts sleep in mixed sex accommodation, such as a sleepover in a Scout hut, and this is allowed. Otherwise, we could only take the boys or the girls, not both!

It has been "allowed" for a long period of time. But (in my albeit limited experience) would only happen in extreme cases. I know if I sent in a camp permission form to district saying I would have both sexes sleeping together, I would have to make one hell of a case for it. And as a group, we would never plan for it.

But, things happen. Like the flood mentioned above, or a broken tent pole, or any other random situation. We can't just kick all kids off site - we would have to wait till parents (or whoever) could come and collect. We could be 4 hours away - and parents are not the best at answering phones, or staying sober. You can't keep the kids up and awake all night - you need them to sleep. So both sexes in a single space is the best decision in that scenario. So the rules allow for this.

The only planned camp I have been aware of where different sexes shared was a sibling group, and there were other factors at play as well.

As far as trans kids - so far, not had any, so not had to manage that minefield. In that scenario I may plan a lot of backwoods/hammock based camps, so no tents to share! But seriously, I would not want to plan for mixed sexes in one tent, but would have one scout in a tent by themselves (older ones frequently do) so would probably do that.

Thanks. That all sounds very different from mixed sex accommodation being actively encouraged, which is what's on the page at the link.

There is a line on the page you linked to:

"Providing a range of options to everyone will not only avoid a trans person feeling singled out, uncomfortable or unsafe using facilities, but will probably make everyone else in the section feel more comfortable, too."

I think this is probably a pretty good summary, and if you remove the word trans applies to all sorts - any diagnosed or undiagnosed need. As a leader, I want everyone to be happy, and will make reasonable adjustments for any kid that needs it - but not to the detriment of the rest of the group.

No different to making the Spag Bol veggie so the vegetarians can eat, or providing a timetable for one of our autistic kids that need that info, or ensuring the newest youngest member of the troop is included, and not anxious about their new experience.

And don't forget, Scouting runs from age 4 - and mixed sex at that age is not a problem. At age 15 - very much a concern I would argue! Although I would hope there are no trans 4 year olds....