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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex education in schools - Tribunal Tweets

18 replies

ToiletTroubles · 16/09/2024 12:38

Hi. Anyone following Tibunal Tweets today? Clare Page, concerned parent, at the Upper Chamber Appeals Tribunal regarding sex education provision by School for Sexuality Education at her daughter's school.

Link: https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1835584102256222266?t=RZPsjobRfQBGhJ_fgWPVIA&s=19

OP posts:
Chrysanthemum5 · 16/09/2024 12:51

Thanks I find the legal discussions hard to follow so hopefully someone with knowledge will post here as well

WarriorN · 16/09/2024 17:05

And important one to follow

AutumnCrow · 16/09/2024 17:42

Thanks for the link, @ToiletTroubles

ToiletTroubles · 16/09/2024 18:31

I'm working so haven't had time to look or post today. Not sure how the first day went.

OP posts:
AutumnCrow · 16/09/2024 18:41

'[the claimant] believes that the lessons may include unbalanced political indoctrination. It is important for society to know what is being taught in schools, and for parents to know what is being taught [and brought home] ...'

And this is the nub of the matter.

BonfireLady · 16/09/2024 23:18

It is indeed @AutumnCrow

Thank you for sharing @ToiletTroubles . Definitely a very important case @WarriorN

I'm no lawyer but the opening comments from Clare Page's seem to be very strong. If I'm understanding it correctly, the argument is that one of the reasons that the case was (allegedly unfairly) won previously was because confidentiality and copyright were conflated.

Some tweets that caught my eye:

The idea must have some element of originality not in the public domain, when looking at whether info is confid, need to look at the circumstances, not just the disclosure but the wider circumstances. In TV & radio - ideas shared cannot be used by recipient. In sex ed in schools we are at the opposite end of the spectrum - info is designed to be used by the recipients

Would a 15 year old in a sex ed class on consent, objectively believe that the info being imparted to them was confidential and we say the answer to that is no.

The 2nd R says the slides are not teaching materials, they are a commercial product. This isn't credible. It isn't education if the recipient cannot use the information.

the question of confidentiality here did not consider the disclosure to the children.

2Rs says it would be 'fatal' to the charity if this one set of slides were to become public. That is simply not tenable.

I'm not familiar enough with the original case to know more about why it won but my first reaction on reading Tribunal Tweets' notes so far is that the original judgement sounds like it came from a time of fear. When nobody dared question the strange edict that it will be dangerous for children if parents see what they are being taught. Hopefully that sounds laughable today and exactly like the safeguarding risk that it is. No secret lessons indeed.

DrBlackbird · 17/09/2024 08:00

In a landmark decision, the ICO backed the school's choice to keep the lesson and teacher's identity secret from parents. Page asserts that this is prioritising the commercial interest of a third party education provider over the public interest of parents to know what their children are taught and prioritising the privacy of the teacher over safeguarding concerns.

If it’s not coding for general AI, it’s going to be information publically available. Materials and information considered so ‘commercially sensitive’ that they cannot be disclosed to parents ought not be used in education. By the very nature of that claim, it reveals itself as not being educational. Since when are educational materials confidential? But utterly crazy that the ICO agreed with the school. Downright Stalinist feel to that decision.

Edited to add how on earth can School of Sexuality Education’s relationships and sex education programmes be ‘award-winning’ if no one is allowed to see their material lol.

DrBlackbird · 17/09/2024 08:25

Looked up the trustees of the charity and if this person is one of the trustees, "Toni-Siobhan Wilks-Pinnock Board Trustee | DEI Advocate | Queer (LGBTQIA+) 🏳️🌈 | Neurodivergent 🦄 | Qualified UK Solicitor"

… then surely they’d know the law on matters of copyright? I wonder if this is why the ICO agreed with the school. And if the charity only received ~£40k in govt grants but have an income of £300k I wonder who is donating the funds? Or is this what schools are paying them for their sex Ed training? What happened to teachers covering this material themselves. That used to be the norm…

I’m not on Twitter if anyone has time to add an update later from TT today that’d be appreciated.

BonfireLady · 17/09/2024 09:20

Edited to add how on earth can School of Sexuality Education’s relationships and sex education programmes be ‘award-winning’ if no one is allowed to see their material lol

You have just destroyed their (SSE's and the ICO's) defence @DrBlackbird Excellent work! 👏

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/09/2024 10:01

It's worth reading Clare Page's long thread

https://x.com/nosecretlessons/status/1835028250742948101?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

It's quite shocking.

"But what gave me most concern was that they signposted on their educational website to their staffs' private websites that featured adult, sexually explicit content...

...with live links in red placed next to the name and face of their staff - i.e. the people that will have been introduced to children of 11+ by their school teachers as trusted adults, whose advice on RSE should be followed."

She then goes on to describe what she saw.

Quodraceratops · 17/09/2024 10:21

Ironically after a long discussion of the company linking staff bios to adult content & making playdo vulvas in school the Judge closes the morning session with:

'J Everyone looks very hot, is that fan working? Is this an appropriate time to rise?'

Hot and bothered indeed...

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 17/09/2024 10:29

Quodraceratops · 17/09/2024 10:21

Ironically after a long discussion of the company linking staff bios to adult content & making playdo vulvas in school the Judge closes the morning session with:

'J Everyone looks very hot, is that fan working? Is this an appropriate time to rise?'

Hot and bothered indeed...

😂 I'm sure I shouldn't find that funny. Childish, moi?

Szygy · 17/09/2024 10:53

I had to check this as I couldn’t be sure I’d remembered correctly - but I was right. The School of Sexuality Education, the people who supplied the lessons in this case and are fighting very hard to keep them secret, were consultants on the wretched 'Family Sex Show' a couple of years ago that was eventually cancelled after an outcry.

I read Clare Page's full X thread a couple of days ago (linked by @Ereshkigalangcleg upthread) and it’s genuinely horrifying.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/09/2024 10:55

I wish the government would just commission appropriate material to be used in all schools and ban all third party material, or say any third party sex education material can only be used when scrutinised by an independent panel and must be freely available to the public.

BonfireLady · 17/09/2024 11:37

Blimey. I'd read some of this but not all.

I wonder what awards SSE is winning with its.... er..... questionable... (and apparently confidential) materials. Actually, no I don't. It'll be the kind that gets celebrated at award ceremonies where anyone who raises the slightest concern is described by high profile celebrities as little whingeing f*ckers.

As for that comedy timing of the judge's comment about needing a fan.... 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

BonfireLady · 17/09/2024 11:39

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/09/2024 10:55

I wish the government would just commission appropriate material to be used in all schools and ban all third party material, or say any third party sex education material can only be used when scrutinised by an independent panel and must be freely available to the public.

Didn't Scotland do that?

On the plus side, it's just one source that needs course correcting once it's clear what's in it. Any thoughts on that LGBTYS...?

redalex261 · 17/09/2024 16:26

Jesus H Christ, when I think of the line diagrams and faltering dialogue of the “tampax nurse” on the mechanics of bodily processes and missionary sex in the 1980s… mind blown. Well done Clare Page.

PuddingAunt · 02/12/2024 17:07

Could someone summarise the post for me as Mr Musk has blocked me for some reason.
TIA

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