Where were all the 'transchildren'?

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@ prof_curiosity1:

A question transactivism cannot answer.

Where were all the 'transchildren' from 1920-2000 when Piaget, Kohlberg, Bandura, Vygotsky, Erikson, Bowlby, Steiner etc along with their students (and their vociferous critics) were spending tens of thousands of hours doing empirical research on children?

Research that involved studying children at home, in nursery and at school. Studies that involved writing down every action, statement, or question that the child asked. And then analysing these recordings for patterns and insights.

Not one of them observed a 'transchild' in all this time.

So where were all the 'transchildren'?

The logical answer is, of course, nowhere, as they were not yet required. They were not invented as a typology until the 2000s when the trans movement needed children to validate the sexual fetishes of autogynephiles and make transgenderism palatable for the public.

The other answer is a conspiracy theory. That research showing transchildren existed was suppressed; rather like alien conspiracy theorists talk about Area 51 in Nevada USA.

If we ignore the conspiracy theory, we are left with the answer that no child was trans until the 'transchild' was needed, in the 2000s, to demonstrate the universality of 'gender identity'.

Children, sadly, were the logical choice due to their undeveloped brains/thinking and their vulnerability. It is not hard to persuade children that Santa exists or even that sexual abuse is a normal part of family life. 'Gender identity' can easily be packaged to appeal to the magical thinking of children.

'Transchildren' have thus become the main focus of transgenderism. For the activists know that without the winsome, photogenic 'transchild', groomed to repeat adult phrases about 'gender identity' the movement consists in the main of adult males with a fetish for dressing up as women.

Transgender ideology needs 'transchildren' to survive. It needs them to harm themselves and kill themselves to demonstrate that the ideology is real.

We need to protect our children. And we can start by debunking the idea and existence of the 'transchild'.

And yes transsexualism and transvestitism did exist through history. What is extraordinary is how these historic identities have been erased by the modern blokes who wear dresses and call themselves transwomen. Where are the transvestites and transsexuals now?

And yes again...
Children experimenting with sex roles and pretending to be the opposite sex is well documented.

This was always historically regarded as a playful phase of experimentation and growing up. It was ignored just as children pretending to be dinosaurs, horses, airplanes etc

What is new is adults stepping into the playful pretences and pathologising them for their own gratification. And insisting that one particular iteration of pretend play is an adult 'gender identity'.

This is child abuse.

And another question that cannot be answered by transactivism.

Where are all the children pre 2000 who killed themselves because their 'gender identity' was not affirmed?

(As we are frequently told "better a live son than a dead daughter" in order to bully parents into allowing their children to be prescribed puberty blockers. Parents are terrified into allowing transition.)

So what happened before the advent of 'gender affirmative care'? According to the current transgender narrative, there would be thousands of children from 1920-2000s who had killed themselves because they were misgendered - and btw what a historic scandal that would have been. But there are no records of these deaths. Mass suicide by misgendered children is yet another transactivists fabrication unless, of course, you believe conspiracy theories and believe all these deaths of 'transchildren' were hidden.

There is no part of scaffolding that supports the 'transchild' fabrication that can stand up to the remotest scrutiny.

And if you are thinking what additional force apart from transgenderism is driving the transing of children, look at this link. Transing children and young people is a highly profitable business with revenue forecast to double by 2030. https://grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/us-sex-reassignment-surgery-market…

There seems to be a huge moral panic about puberty blockers.

Not a 'moral panic' but a huge amount of concern about the unwanted effects of these drugs, particularly when taken over a long period by adolescents.

These include concerns about the effects on bone density and brain development. There are now young women in their 20s and 30s with osteoporosis due to taking these drugs as teenagers.

I do think it's not really any of anyone else's business what other people do or identify as.

How would you feel about a teenage boy identifying as a girl and sharing the girls' changing room at school with your SD? Do you think teenage girls should have the right to a female-only changing room or do you think that's interfering with the right of a boy to identify as he wants?

The changing areas at my local swimming pool are all unisex, no-one seems to be overly worried about it. There are communal areas and a few cubicles for people who want privacy. If someone was ogling other people or making unwanted comments, regardless of their gender, that would be a problem.

I took them from 12-16. All medications carry risks. Gillick competence means being able to comprehend the risk and make an informed decision as to whether you want to take it.

It's caused friction in the past when my mother (not SD's grandmother) has felt the need to stick her oar in and criticise SD for presenting as a boy.

It sounds as though your mother is strongly in favour of gender stereotypes. You have perhaps subconsciously absorbed her views as 'normal' due to your upbringing, which may explain why you think these stereotypes are so important.

Many children who identify as trans and people who support trans ideology seem to have had an upbringing in which gender stereotypes were rigidly enforced.

I don't require pop-psychoanalysis. I didn't say I thought gender stereotypes were important. I believe you when you say you don't identify with "feeling like a woman". I believe SD when she says she doesn't feel that she is a girl. It seems to me to be extremely arrogant to decide that the way other people feel is not actually how they feel, they are just confused or badly brought up, because you feel differently.

She certainly had no basis to assume she feels like a boy.

The changing areas at my local swimming pool are all unisex, no-one seems to be overly worried about it.

I'm not bothered and I can't see why anyone else would be either

Apart from the women and girls who are too afraid to say anything, or the ones who have just stopped going swimming to avoid the changing areas.

Gillick competence means being able to comprehend the risk and make an informed decision as to whether you want to take it.

But can children REALLY comprehend the risk and make an informed descision? As a child the thought of sex and periods and having babies are generally utterly gross and incomprehensible. If that is coupled with GNC and adults insisting that I could avoid all that stuff by taking these virtually harmless drugs, then you can say that they have made an informed choice.
There are plenty of accounts of adults who have gone through surgery and taken cross sex hormones who clearly didn't understand what the outcome would be.

The Gillick case was about contraception, the availability of which can prevent the life changing consequences of teenage pregnancy. Risk Vs reward.
The risk Vs reward of giving puberty blockers without sound physical reason needs a different discussion which is only now being played out...because 'hand wringing'.

MrsSunshine2b

I believe SD when she says she doesn't feel that she is a girl.

The issue I and others have is by what metric is this measured?
If she doesn't feel like a girl then what does she feel like?
Its the reverse of the "what does a woman feel like?" and "how do you live like a woman?"
You may not like the questions but they are valid.

I didn't say I thought gender stereotypes were important.

Well, you did say this:
George from the famous five has a "boys" haircut, wears "boys" clothes, insists on being identified by a "boys" name, loves being mistaken for a boy and tries to have her prefix changed to "Master". Sounds pretty trans to me.

And this:
My SD14 is non-binary, she uses she and they pronouns, wears "boys" clothes, has a "boys" haircut and is using a more masculine shortening of her given name. It doesn't seem to be a phase since she started saying she didn't want to be a girl pretty much when she learned to talk. No-one ever made a big deal of it, she picked her own clothes and her own haircut. If at some point in the future she goes back to a more feminine name, grows her hair, wears more girly clothes, no-one will make a big deal of that either.

So it seems to me that you think gender stereotypes are an important part of a trans identity, and that it's necessary to identify as 'not a girl' if a girl wants to step outside those narrow stereotypes.

There are plenty of accounts of adults who have gone through surgery and taken cross sex hormones who clearly didn't understand what the outcome would be.

Freddy McConnell, despite being a university-educated adult, didn't realise that having a double mastectomy would lead to an inability to breastfeed.

I believe SD when she says she doesn't feel that she is a girl.

But she is a girl, so what does she mean by this?

Would you believe her if she said she didn't feel that she was human?

So absent were these gender dysphoric children from the awareness of clinicians that the GIDS was founded in 1989, a remarkable 11 years prior to their 'invention'.

What you are calling 'trans' is a recently devised term for a set of experiences and feelings that people have always felt. The difference it - this new theory posits the primacy of the concept of 'gender identity' over the reality of biological sex - and that is the main difference...along with contemporary surgical and pharmaceutical 'remdies'.

'Identity' has got nothing to do with biological reality.

Thank you for taking my questions in good faith. Although not all of the questions weren't answered, it doesn't sound like what I was saying was taken as "transphobic". Obviously please feel free to correct that assumption (my request would then be to answer questions 1 and 2 as well).

There seems to be a huge moral panic about puberty blockers.

The "huge moral panic" is the growing realisation in healthcare that tens of thousands of children have been put on these worldwide, many of whom have never gone through puberty because they stayed on them past the window within which puberty could happen. Many/most who did so probably believed they were going through the puberty of the opposite sex by taking cross-sex hormones. It's impossible to go through the puberty of the opposite sex: girls with a male gender identity who take testosterone won't develop sperm (unlike girls' eggs, boys aren't born with sperm. It develops during puberty) and their voiceboxes won't widen (but their vocal chords will lengthen - the longer chords in the same size space lead to the distinctive "croak" that differs from the broken voice of a male). Boys with a female gender identity who take oestrogen won't get a wider pelvis or be able to ever produce milk naturally (yes they'll get fat redistribution and breast tissue but that's all. Fun fact: even females who have never had babies can lactate naturally if they pump enough after they have been through puberty).
It's as much a "moral panic" as with any other medical scandal, we just happen to be in it now rather than looking back on it years later. I should imagine the infected blood scandal, lobotomies and Thalidomide all looked like "moral panic" when there were still enough doctors doing them and publicly advocating for them as treatments.

I was actually on them for a while for unrelated medical issues. Then I came off them and went through puberty. Aside from it being a bit weird to go through puberty at 17 there wasn't any issues.

It's good news that you haven't experienced adverse effects and good news that you stopped them and went through puberty. Unfortunately there are people who took them short term (for less time than you) who have experienced permanent and debilitating side effects. There has been a large class action in the US against Lupron, which has been used in precocious puberty for both sexes, gender dysphoria for both sexes, prostate cancer and (famously, in the case of Alan Turing) chemical castration of gay men.

Not sure what all the fuss is about. It's certainly not relevant to our lives or something that's ever been discussed with relation to any child we know, despite SD having found a lot of gender non-conforming friends.

That's good to hear. There are many clusters of "gender non-conforming" friendship groups who sadly seem to egg each other on to believe that puberty blockers are "life saving" and that suicide is the only alternative. The young people who recently climbed the NHS and DfE buildings demanding access to them are an example. I've seen that they are pledging to carry their message around schools.

I don't think saying it's nonsense or doesn't exist should be illegal. However, I do think it's not really any of anyone else's business what other people do or identify as.

It becomes other people's business when the person with the gender identity that differs from their sex is forcing it on to others as a "fact". For example, Isla Bryson who identified as female and wanted to be in a women's because Isla "is" female according to Isla's gender identity belief. Same for other transwomen who want enter women's sports. In both these examples, the women in the prison/sport are having the transwoman's belief forced upon them. It's very much these prison/sports' women's business as they are likely to be concerned about safety and fairness. It's also the business of those who want to show their allyship for the prison/sports women by speaking out to amplify their voices. Without such support they may not get heard.

It's caused friction in the past when my mother (not SD's grandmother) has felt the need to stick her oar in and criticise SD for presenting as a boy.

Both my daughters have worn clothes from the boys' aisle for years. Since they were old enough to tell me they hated dresses, around the age of three. Plus shoes from the boys selection. My eldest loves football and her sister loves climbing trees. Both of them found the "girls'" options utterly impractical and not to their taste. Had my mum not accepted this, this would have upset me. My eldest now also has short hair and wears a sports bra. She gets mistaken for a boy lots. The main thing that upsets me is that adults seem to have totally forgotten that many girls prefer short hair. The other thing that upsets me is the amount of effort I have to go to (at an institution level: school, hospital etc) to explain why asking an autistic girl what pronouns she prefers to use (because she is dressed as described above) is signposting her to potentially replace autism-related puberty distress with a belief that she might be a boy. It's basically asking whether she's wants to be a boy or a girl, therefore implicitly saying it's optional, even if the person asking it doesn't realise they are doing this.

What is being asked of you is to examine, and explain far more clearly, what it is you are actually suggesting. Because, otherwise, you are just repeating learned articles of faith and expecting other people to accept without question.

You were born female and so were first of all a girl, and then you grew into an adult ( woman).

*although not all of the questions were answered.

I thought I'd caught all the typos in my edit but unfortunately not.

Do I detect a lot of emphasis in your family on presenting 'correctly' for one' sex? Not just your mother, but earlier you said you'd hate to be thought of as a boy, or that you " looked like a boy".

People can imagine anything they want in the privacy of their own mind, but when their imagination starts to impinge on other people in a negative way then there are clearly issues to be dealt with.

Creating confusion in the minds of children between the realty of their sex and the concept of 'gender identities' is really not healthy at all.

The Unisex is why parents with children don’t use the community changing … take kids straight outside in a onesie. The creepy guys love community !

There is a lot of confusion and lack of clarity in your thought processes.

If a female child says to you " I don't feel like a girl", then the responsible adult approach would be to ask " What do you think a girl feels like?" or " What is it you don't like about what other people expect from girls?"...or similar.

Asking these questions would help the child to get some clarity about their feelings and discomfort, but would also help them to develop critical thinking and an ability to analyse - both of which are higher level skills and, as such, very valuable.

Yes, and many clinicians have said that a large cohort of gay ( and autistic) children were being 'transed' by GIDS. The normal feelings of discomfort or feelings of distress felt by many nascently same sex attracted/GNC children was being pathologised and shoved into a 'trans' shaped construct.

I am still no clearer on what feeling like a girl or boy means? Even though it 's still being stated as conclusive of...not sure what.... Something?!
And just a couple of points. Re consent and Gillick, this is not the entry point into a young person taking medication. Doctors shouldnt prescribe, and people shouldn't take, medication solely because they can. The entry point is whether the medication is, in layman's terms relevant/helpful/necessary/has an acceptable risk to benefit ratio. In the case of 'trans' therefore, the first question has to be 'what are we trying to help/cure?' The answer presumably is 'gender dysphoria'.... And there we are back to the question posed and never answered: what IS gender? And how can it be what it is said to be by those in the faith? If we can't define the words being used we cant have any sensible discussion about anything.

MrsSunshine2b

Have you really never asked your daughter why she doesn't feel like a girl? To describe it to you? Not once? Did it never occur to you what she could possibly mean?

And ok, you do not understand the fuss about puberty blockers, but there is no evidence that they are beneficial to children who are confused about their sex. See the Cass report.

And 98% of the time they lead to cross sex hormones, which will result in a child being sterile, not being able to orgasm, and therefore struggle to pair bond.

it's not a moral panic, it's a direct path from puberty blockers to a lifetime of sterility and anorgasmia.

A decision which you believe a child is competent to make at the onset of puberty. What's that? Nine, ten, eleven?

I still can't get over having a child who said they didn't want to be a girl before they could even walk, and you never finding out exactly what that means!!

t

32mins 50secs Mia Hughes discusses the WPATH files, young people, choices and concent.