Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

1967 Valley of the Dolls film

32 replies

ZeldaFighter · 09/09/2024 18:22

"Why can't a woman be more like a man?" waiIs one of the male characters. I believe he was a repressed, closeted gay man.

I watched it years ago as my (then new) boyfriend liked it. I now think he simply enjoyed the preponderance of large-breastfed women.

The line stayed with me. It puzzled me as surely not being men was what men liked about women. Then 90s ladette culture had girls who shagged, drank and watched football like boys. Then MTF trans people being much better "women" with their lack of periods or menopause, better sporting performance, male interests etc

Same behaviour, different decades? Interested to hear any thoughts.

OP posts:
TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 09/09/2024 18:28

Isn't that from the 1964 film 'My Fair Lady' sung by Rex Harrison?

(I haven't seen Valley of the Dolls)

HausofHolbein · 09/09/2024 18:34

It's a song from MFL:

PROFESSOR HIGGINS:
Why can't a woman be more like a man?
Men are so honest, so thoroughly square;
Eternally noble, historically fair.
Who, when you win, will always give your back a pat.
Why can't a woman be like that?
Why does every one do what the others do?
Can't a woman learn to use her head?
Why do they do everything their mothers do?
Why don't they grow up, well, like their father instead?
Why can't a woman take after a man?
Men are so pleasant, so easy to please.
Whenever you're with them, you're always at ease.
Would you be slighted if I didn't speak for hours?

COLONEL PICKERING:
Of course not.

PROFESSOR HIGGINS:
Would you be livid if I had a drink or two?

COLONEL PICKERING:
Nonsense.

PROFESSOR HIGGINS:
Would you be wounded if I never sent you flowers?

COLONEL PICKERING:
Never.

PROFESSOR HIGGINS:
Well, why can't a woman be like you?
One man in a million may shout a bit.
Now and then, there's one with slight defects.
One perhaps whose truthfulness you doubt a bit,
But by and large we are a marvelous sex!
Why can't a woman take after a man?
'Cause men are so friendly, good-natured and kind.
A better companion you never will find.
If I were hours late for dinner would you bellow?

COLONEL PICKERING:
Of course not.

PROFESSOR HIGGINS:
If I forgot your silly birthday, would you fuss?

COLONEL PICKERING:
Nonsense.

PROFESSOR HIGGINS:
Would you complain if I took out another fellow?

COLONEL PICKERING:
Never.

PROFESSOR HIGGINS:
Why can't a woman be like us?
[dialog]

PROFESSOR HIGGINS:
Why can't a woman be more like a man?
Men are so decent, such regular chaps;
Ready to help you through any mishaps;
Ready to buck you up whenever you're glum.
Why can't a woman be a chum?
Why is thinking something women never do?
And why is logic never even tried?
Straightening up their hair is all they ever do.
Why don't they straighten up the mess that's inside?
Why can't a woman behave like a man?
If I was a woman who'd been to a ball,
Been hailed as a princess by one and by all;
Would I start weeping like a bathtub overflowing,
Or carry on as if my home were in a tree?
Would I run off and never tell me where I'm going?
Why can't a woman be like me?

ZeldaFighter · 09/09/2024 18:37

OMG!! I have never seen My Fair Lady - I never knew that!!!

I really don't want to have to watch Valley of the Dolls again 😞

OP posts:
username101010 · 09/09/2024 18:39

The feminine has always been negative and masculine positive. Women have been oppressed for milenia and anything associated with women has traditionally been seen as negative.

The patriarchy has a great way of twisting feminism to suit men. Want to work? Cool. You work and still do everything else. Ta. Want to be sexually empowered? Cool. Stripping and sex work is well empowering! Want Equality? Cool. Act like a man, anything else is girly.

StoatofDisarray · 09/09/2024 18:44

Thanks for quoting that song in full, I adore it!

CrossPurposes · 09/09/2024 19:00

ZeldaFighter · 09/09/2024 18:37

OMG!! I have never seen My Fair Lady - I never knew that!!!

I really don't want to have to watch Valley of the Dolls again 😞

Are you sure you aren't thinking of Beyond the Valley of the Dolls which is a Russ Meyer film full of grotesquerie and boobs. Valley of the Dolls is a big budget Hollywood melodrama.

ZeldaFighter · 09/09/2024 22:42

CrossPurposes · 09/09/2024 19:00

Are you sure you aren't thinking of Beyond the Valley of the Dolls which is a Russ Meyer film full of grotesquerie and boobs. Valley of the Dolls is a big budget Hollywood melodrama.

Yep, I did mean the huge tits Russ Meyer one. I think I should just stick to reading other women's wise words! I'm not doing very well here!

OP posts:
NPET · 10/09/2024 00:03

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 09/09/2024 18:28

Isn't that from the 1964 film 'My Fair Lady' sung by Rex Harrison?

(I haven't seen Valley of the Dolls)

That's immediately what I thought.

TheCultureHusks · 10/09/2024 00:25

THTRMO!

jazzybelle · 10/09/2024 00:28

Valley of the Dolls is a really good book.

MissEsmeWatson · 10/09/2024 00:34

Beyond the Valley of the Dolls isn't really anything to do with the original Valley of the Dolls. Best to read the original Jacqueline Susann book, I love it.

OhcantthInkofaname · 10/09/2024 00:43

Hey now, I'm in the US, I got a one day suspension for skipping school to go see Valley of the Dolls. I loved that movie.

StainlessSteelMouse · 10/09/2024 01:20

Some of the trashy movies of the time have become so camp with age that they're lots of fun now, if you're in a silly enough mood.

I'm always amazed that nobody has tried to cancel Myra Breckinridge yet. Maybe it's too old, too weird and too obscure. You can tell it's a male fantasy though, by the fact a guy gets on the operating table and wakes up as Raquel Welch. Almost no women look like Raquel Welch.

Though I've heard a story that Raquel wanted to play the male part too, which could have been hilarious.

Love My Fair Lady. Haven't seen it in years though. Long overdue a rewatch.

SinnerBoy · 10/09/2024 01:51

I only found out a few years ago that The Valley of the Dolls was a film (I'm a 54 year old stripling...) I just thought it was the Generation X song.

Yes, I'm probably a Philistine!

TempestTost · 10/09/2024 02:12

I think people in general want things both ways. Heterosexuals, at least, are often very attracted to the specific differences between the sexes, the things that most differentiate them. oth physically and otherwise.

At the same time, the sentiment, why can't they be more like us, seems really common. Why can't they care about the things we care about, enjoy the things we enjoy, want the kinds of lives we want? You can hear groups of men talk this way about their female partners and groups of women about their male partners.

Rightsraptor · 10/09/2024 21:37

I love the theme song from Valley of the Dolls, sung by Dionne Warwick.

theDudesmummy · 10/09/2024 22:44

O.G I had forgotten Myra Beckenridge. Thanks for reminding me. I was blown away by the book when I was in my 20s. I never saw the film.

lifeinthelastlane · 10/09/2024 22:58

I like the idea of "large, breastfed women" 😂

StainlessSteelMouse · 10/09/2024 23:52

theDudesmummy · 10/09/2024 22:44

O.G I had forgotten Myra Beckenridge. Thanks for reminding me. I was blown away by the book when I was in my 20s. I never saw the film.

It's a real mess. Very much of its time. But there are fun moments. Raquel had a talent for comedy that was rarely used, and there is the jaw dropping spectacle of an 80 year old Mae West running a casting couch for male actors.

AliasGrace47 · 28/06/2025 01:55

I see what you mean about ladettes: but otoh why shouldn't a woman watch football? Or play it? As a GC, that doesn't make her a man!

Drinking and too much shagging are bad for both sexes, tho they tend to hit women harder due to pregnancy potential & less alcohol restitance.

lcakethereforeIam · 28/06/2025 12:05

Isn't there a film where the guy...you know that bloke?...he was the voice of Puss in Boots! That guy! Anyway he kidnapped the man who'd sexually assaulted his daughter leading to her suicide and turned him into his daughter, he was a skilled plastic surgeon. Imagine if he'd been an accountant! They became lovers. It was fucked up. I think she/he bided her time and killed him.

MarieDeGournay · 28/06/2025 16:19

ZeldaFighter · 09/09/2024 22:42

Yep, I did mean the huge tits Russ Meyer one. I think I should just stick to reading other women's wise words! I'm not doing very well here!

You started an interesting and fun chat about films and books, and gave us the memorable typo 'large breastfed women'😀 so 'you're grand' as we say in Ireland, and come back any time with more things for us to talk aboutSmile
BTW I'm laughing with you and not at you about the 'breastfed' typo, we all do typos, but that one is brill!Grin

ImWearingPantaloons · 28/06/2025 16:33

I love Valley Of The Dolls, have it in DVD and one of guilty pleasures when I’m home alone on a rainy day. Love Sharon Tate movies (RIP)

MistyGreenAndBlue · 28/06/2025 16:53

lcakethereforeIam · 28/06/2025 12:05

Isn't there a film where the guy...you know that bloke?...he was the voice of Puss in Boots! That guy! Anyway he kidnapped the man who'd sexually assaulted his daughter leading to her suicide and turned him into his daughter, he was a skilled plastic surgeon. Imagine if he'd been an accountant! They became lovers. It was fucked up. I think she/he bided her time and killed him.

Antonio Banderas. He did a few weird kinky films but I haven't heard of this one.

yossell · 28/06/2025 17:01

lcakethereforeIam · 28/06/2025 12:05

Isn't there a film where the guy...you know that bloke?...he was the voice of Puss in Boots! That guy! Anyway he kidnapped the man who'd sexually assaulted his daughter leading to her suicide and turned him into his daughter, he was a skilled plastic surgeon. Imagine if he'd been an accountant! They became lovers. It was fucked up. I think she/he bided her time and killed him.

Is that The Skin I live In? An Almodovar film? It's pretty weird...

I am intrigued by the large breastfed women in the op though. I really can't tell just by sight.

Swipe left for the next trending thread