New DfE guidelines drop 'trans children'

[ArabellaScott]

https://x.com/justdad7/status/1830740766034969044

Looks like good news.

The 2023 guidelines used 'LGBT', this has now changed to LGB and 'gender questioning' children, in line with Cass.

More guidelines forthcoming.

Great to see this

Link to the guidelines

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/keeping-children-safe-in-education--2

If we could normalise the addition of the word stereotypes after the term gender, it would go even further to illuminate the sexist nature of the whole concept.

I think there's an updated part on forced marriage since a change in the law, too:

'since February 2023 it has also been a crime to carry out any conduct whose
purpose is to cause a child to marry before their eighteenth birthday, even if violence,threats or another form of coercion are not used'

P55:

'Children who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or gender questioning

N.B. This section remains under review, pending the outcome of the gender
questioning children guidance consultation, and final gender questioning
guidance documents being published.

205. A child or young person being lesbian, gay, or bisexual is not in itself an
     inherent risk factor for harm, however, they can sometimes be targeted by other
     children. In some cases, a child who is perceived by other children to be lesbian,
     gay, or bisexual (whether they are or not) can be just as vulnerable as children who are.

206. However, the Cass review identified that caution is necessary for children
     questioning their gender as there remain many unknowns about the impact of
     social transition and children may well have wider vulnerabilities, including having complex mental health and psychosocial needs, and in some cases additional diagnoses of autism spectrum disorder and/or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

207. It recommended that when families/carers are making decisions about
     support for gender questioning children, they should be encouraged to seek clinical help and advice. When parents are supporting pre-pubertal children, clinical services should ensure that they can be seen as early as possible by a clinical professional with relevant experience.

208. As such, when supporting a gender questioning child, schools should take a cautious approach and consider the broad range of their individual needs, in
     partnership with the child’s parents (other than in the exceptionally rare
     circumstances where involving parents would constitute a significant risk of harm to the child), including any clinical advice that is available and how to address wider vulnerabilities such as the risk of bullying. Schools should refer to our Guidance for Schools and Colleges in relation to Gender Questioning Children, when deciding how to proceed.

209. Risks can be compounded where children lack trusted adults with whom
     they can be open. It is therefore vital that staff endeavour to reduce the additional barriers faced and create a culture where they can speak out or share their concerns with members of staff.'

Consultation, results due in December:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/equalities-political-impartiality-anti-bullying-team/gender-questioning-children-proposed-guidance/

Well thats definitely going in the right direction, I'll allow myself to be cautiously optimistic I think.

That’s brilliant
many on here have argued for years that seeing as trans is an undefinable political or religious concept that it shouldn’t ever be applied to children.

I’d have preferred just ‘Distressed’ or ‘distressed about gender stereotypes’, rather than ‘gender questioning’. Because everybody questions the limits of gender stereotypes at some point, because they are ridiculous. Other phrases would have been even better, but let’s take that for a win. ‘Questioning’, at least implies no firm point of arrival at something for a child, that they are in an exploratory phase, which corresponds to the experience of the majority of children in this area.

Very happy and relieved that this government are taking children’s safety and wellbeing so seriously and are listening to experts.

It is something to be cautiously optimistic about, the only downside is that it is out for consultation and we all know the reaction it will receive from the Gender Ideologues.

What will be informative is how the Labour Government/Education Secretary react to the inevitable tantrums from those whose mission it is to embed the ideology in children.

I believe this is based on the guidelines developed by the previous government. So it remains to be seen whether Labour stick with it.

Whilst I can see that pov, distressed links firmly to the suicide narrative which needs to be addressed.

Questioning still leans too much towards they can "choose their sex" to my liking, but as schools are supposed to embed challenging gender stereotyping, one would hope that over time it's see for what it is.

This is a clear dividing of the T from the LGB though many in schools may not yet recognise it.

It does mean vast amounts of resources are suddenly inappropriate. Whether schools will realise this is another matter and one that parents may need to be vigilant about and challenge.

Hiding these as secrets from parents is addressed; the final paragraph is needed but I still worry about extreme activists within schools.

Questioning still leans too much towards they can "choose their sex" to my liking, but as schools are supposed to embed challenging gender stereotyping, one would hope that over time it's see for what it is.

It will have to be clear that questioning gender is not choosing their sex, it cannot be sex is not a choice.

Adding in my (slightly sweary 😁) comment from a previous thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5156187-keeping-children-safe-in-education-update-020924?reply=137994339&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

I'm wondering if schools will still be able to run "LGBT" clubs. Surely they would need to recognise that looping in the T is a safeguarding risk, and instead these would presumably need to be LGB only if they wanted to run them.

(Obviously there are wider questions about whether children should be talking to adults in school clubs about sex at all but that's a different conversation.... they don't run "I'm starting to feel horny" clubs for straight children, so why LGB?)

Yes, very much this.

I believe this is based on the guidelines developed by the previous government. So it remains to be seen whether Labour stick with it.

One would hope that if Labour have committed to the Cass review via Wes that the basic tenets remain as stated.

However, Cass is middle lane and appears to acknowledge that true trans does exist. So the questioning guidelines are key to all this. And I expect they will be 'centrist.'

I do hope though that what appears to be a rejection of the nonsense amongst some children continues to grow.

I am very concerned about the home school community. Whilst some have thought that this is a solution (and it may have been in some circumstances) the home school community has been growing increasingly to accommodate autistic children who've been let down by school.

Many of the parents of autistic children are captured by the ideology, though I know many aren't. And they do tend to create networks of support.

Home school networks sometimes turn to group tutors for some subjects. Eg art, especially if there's studio spaces. It's good that Labour have recognised the safeguarding implications of relying on tutors and insist that kcsie is used.

I know that there are alternative provisions that are very trans ally ish for autistic children who aren't accessing school, and who also take home schooled children.

I am concerned that it's very possible for all this to go underground.

Ds's middle school has a pride club. (Who just seem to colour flags as far as I can tell.)

Yes middle school. Y5 - y8

I don't think it's very popular tbh.

It will have to be clear that questioning gender is not choosing their sex, it cannot be sex is not a choice.

Yes very key.

Some people I know though don't really understand the difference.

Ach, completely missed that thread! I did look for one.

Some people I know though don't really understand the difference.

Yes, that is a major concern. I agree with you about stereotypes too.

Incredible it got this far

A slight improvement, could do better. Need to improve their listening skills.

definitely andy

Sorry anyold!

A cautiously optimistic start to the weekend.
If the word 'trans' is replaced with 'gender questioning' in schools the attraction for many children could well diminish.

Easily done @ArabellaScott The previous thread didn't get the traction it deserved so it's good to see this one doing so.

Home school networks sometimes turn to group tutors for some subjects. Eg art, especially if there's studio spaces. It's good that Labour have recognised the safeguarding implications of relying on tutors and insist that kcsie is used.

I know that there are alternative provisions that are very trans ally ish for autistic children who aren't accessing school, and who also take home schooled children.

I am concerned that it's very possible for all this to go underground.

A very good point @WarriorN
When my daughter was out of school (for what ended up being most of the academic year - she later went back and repeated the year), I was initially in a parenting group for autism. When the online tuition that was provided through the school didn't work out (she found it too low level and too reminiscent of covid times, being stuck online), I was considering different options. The leader of the autism group told me about a network near me which included tutoring groups in person. I was interested in taking my daughter but she still wasn't leaving the house at the time, owing to her poor mental health. I didn't look in to it any further at the time because the primary focus was on her mental health recovery and my priority re schools was in getting her "gender questioning" needs addressed in her EHCP. Plus it was emerging already that her preference was to return to her existing school and repeat the year, so it wasn't needed in the end.
But yes, it's a huge risk that it will go underground. Several parents in the autism group were thinking about taking their children out and taking a home-led approach.

Re LGBT clubs at school, it sounds like it would be easier to keep it non-sex focused in a setting for years 5 to 8. In a secondary school with years 7 to 11, there is more likely to be talk about sex both between students and between adults and students. Obviously sex shouldn't be taboo but it's not always obvious where the line should be when talking about sexual feelings in these settings. Particularly if an adult is sharing their own experience. This is a great article which reflects on this point:
https://www.transgendertrend.com/school-lgbt-club/