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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Nominations for the Women and Equalities Committee Chair close on 9 September 2024

47 replies

IwantToRetire · 05/09/2024 17:50

I may have misread this but it appears there is only one nomination?

A sign that this Labour Government is running a tight ship?

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/328/women-and-equalities-committee/news/202694/nominations-open-for-the-women-and-equalities-committee-chair/

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IwantToRetire · 10/09/2024 16:31

It is odd that the more pro-women Labour MPs didn't run a candidate. There is enough of them to get someone on the ballot. They might have got a bunch of Tory backers. Is there something going on behind the scenes? Were they pressured not to cause a scene, by trying to elect someone realistic.

I said this early up thread.

This is such a blatant example of how false the notion was that the Labour Party in any way was / is interested in supporting women's sex based rights.

Not only this committee stitch up but the casual, so unimportant we wont bother doing it officially, off record briefing that Labour will not update the EA. Except to replace gender reassignment with gender identity.

We may well find that the brief period of Kemi Badenoch being Minister for Women will have been the high point for gender critical, sex based rights politics in the UK.

And now the mainstream media cant get any mileage out of it, there is less coverage.

Its going to be all down hill from here.

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IwantToRetire · 11/09/2024 01:08

Thanks to the power of FWR (maybe!) the Telegraph has now written about this.

I doubt it will change anything but at least their article puts the problem of have the choice of 2 biased candidates. Maybe Labour has its very own definition of Equalities.

Both MPs competing to chair women and equalities committee say trans women are women

Both of the MPs who are vying to chair the women and equalities committee believe that transgender women are women.

Kate Osborne and Sarah Owen, two Labour MPs, are seeking election in a vote on Wednesday to head one of the most influential backbencher groups in Parliament.

Select committee chairs are elected in a secret ballot of the whole House, with MPs ranking candidates in their order of preference.

Ms Owen, the MP for Luton North, and Ms Osborne, the MP for Jarrow and Gateshead East, have heavily criticised campaigning groups which assert the importance of biological sex.

Continues at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/10/women-equalities-committee-chair-kate-osborne-sarah-owen/

or can be read in full at https://archive.is/z9aZr

Both MPs competing to chair women and equalities committee say trans women are women

Labour’s Kate Osborne and Sarah Owen are seeking election in a vote on Wednesday to head the influential backbencher group

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/10/women-equalities-committee-chair-kate-osborne-sarah-owen

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fromorbit · 11/09/2024 09:54

IwantToRetire · 10/09/2024 16:31

It is odd that the more pro-women Labour MPs didn't run a candidate. There is enough of them to get someone on the ballot. They might have got a bunch of Tory backers. Is there something going on behind the scenes? Were they pressured not to cause a scene, by trying to elect someone realistic.

I said this early up thread.

This is such a blatant example of how false the notion was that the Labour Party in any way was / is interested in supporting women's sex based rights.

Not only this committee stitch up but the casual, so unimportant we wont bother doing it officially, off record briefing that Labour will not update the EA. Except to replace gender reassignment with gender identity.

We may well find that the brief period of Kemi Badenoch being Minister for Women will have been the high point for gender critical, sex based rights politics in the UK.

And now the mainstream media cant get any mileage out of it, there is less coverage.

Its going to be all down hill from here.

I think there is more hope than that thinking it will get worse. Inside the Conservatives in 2016-8 huge numbers of MPs followed the TRA line. Conservatives for Women over time helped flip that. Defeating TAs is not impossible.

Inside Labour the TAs are way way stronger it is going to be way more difficult. Huge progress has been made, Criticising Cass is now against the party line. So asking why gender crit Labour didn't run a candidate is a good question I have been thinking about it. One issue is Committee chairs have to be a backbencher. Many of the most prominent LWD supporters are ministers including Shabana Mahmood, the Lord Chancellor, Dame Johnson as The minister for Policing, and Jess Philips as Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Safeguarding and Violence Against Women and Girls. Tonia is chair of the NI committee she can't do both. Being a minister is better and more powerful than chairing a committee.

So why not run Rosie. Maybe Rosie didn't want to get in another fight. Who can blame her?

I speculated there might have been pressure not to run a candidate. There might be another reason. Perhaps Sarah Owen has secretly cut a deal to get gender crit support to take down Osborne. Who knows what is going on behind the scenes? It is going to be very vicious, because it is Labour. Maybe LWD MPs decided there were bigger targets to deal with. Maybe they are focusing on the Conversion therapy fight etc.

Lets see what happens with the lobbying today and at the Labour conference.

How many people will be attending the LWD stall in the conference centre. How many MPs at the meetings?

IwantToRetire · 11/09/2024 17:36

It was a shame, that the day of the Lobby by Sex Matters turned out to be the day of the vote on fuel payments for pensioners.

The media was totally focused on this.

On any other day they might have run a story about a women's lobby.

As yet have seen nothing in the media about it at all.

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Theeyeballsinthesky · 11/09/2024 21:15

It’s Sarah Owen

Nominations for the Women and Equalities Committee Chair close on 9 September 2024
UtopiaPlanitia · 12/09/2024 02:32

I’m desperately hoping that Owen is more reasonable than Osborne but I’m not expecting much from her, given past statements.

ArabellaScott · 12/09/2024 06:08

She seems less aggressively extreme.

Chersfrozenface · 12/09/2024 06:45

Labour's plan

Transing children: ooh, bad optics, keep kicking into long grass, repeated short-term bans on puberty blockers, keep rewriting and consulting on school guidelines over and over again.

Women: keep wanging on about VAWG, do nothing concrete about it, otherwise meh, who cares?

Boudiccaofsteel · 12/09/2024 07:05

Chersfrozenface · 12/09/2024 06:45

Labour's plan

Transing children: ooh, bad optics, keep kicking into long grass, repeated short-term bans on puberty blockers, keep rewriting and consulting on school guidelines over and over again.

Women: keep wanging on about VAWG, do nothing concrete about it, otherwise meh, who cares?

Agreed but as for violence against women and girls not only do nothing to stop it but to deliberately and knowingly take ludicrous actions like releasing violent men guilty of domestic Violence from prisons early without even warning the women at risk . Women and girls will be directly injured as a result .

where was this in the manifesto.

UtopiaPlanitia · 12/09/2024 16:43

Listening to Owen on Women’s Hour was an exercise in frustration; she’s doing the whole pre-election thing of ‘we certainly should have a respectful debate….blah, blah, blah….the most marginalised people….what is a woman anyway?….’ but you know that all this is code for ‘we absolutely won’t entertain any POV that differs from our progressive left-wing opinion and we’re not at home to sex realism, thank you very much’.

So it seems we have a Caroline Noakes v2.0 in charge of the WESC for the life of this government 🤦‍♀️

IwantToRetire · 12/09/2024 17:01

I was wondering whether poodle of the TRAs Kate Osborne was pushed to immediately put herself forward, and that even Labour having seen her make a complete idiot of herself opposite Kemi Badenoch, thought we need to step in.

And of course selected a TWAW candidate. Let's face it a Labour gender critical candidate would not have got enough nominations as most Labour MPs wouldn't dare to be seen giving public support.

I wonder if Rose Duffield will join the committee. I haven't looked into how they are elected.

A strong unbiased committee would make a huge difference.

Sadly I doubt KB will be part of it as in hoping to become Leader of the Opposition wouldn't be a lowly committee member.

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IwantToRetire · 12/09/2024 17:05

Have only just seen, and it seems a bit after the fact, but both candidates now have their statement of why they should be elected chair on the web site.

Slight difference in tone but .... https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/328/women-and-equalities-committee/news/202694/nominations-open-for-the-women-and-equalities-committee-chair

Funny given that the title of the committee is WOMEN and equality how little women feature in either statement.

I suppose as always we women will just have to be happy to be an afterthough every now and again.

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IwantToRetire · 12/09/2024 17:13

Have only found this after a quick search of the process to select committee members. Looks like it could take a while.

And committee membership will reflect number of seats in Parliament, ie the committee will be Labour dominated.

You have to scroll down quite a long way to find the relevant section for anyone interested https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/election-select-committee-chairs-and-members

parliament-facade-1504x846px.jpg

Election of select committee chairs and members in the House of Commons | Institute for Government

This explainer sets how select committee chairs and members are elected.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/election-select-committee-chairs-and-members

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UtopiaPlanitia · 12/09/2024 17:41

IwantToRetire · 12/09/2024 17:05

Have only just seen, and it seems a bit after the fact, but both candidates now have their statement of why they should be elected chair on the web site.

Slight difference in tone but .... https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/328/women-and-equalities-committee/news/202694/nominations-open-for-the-women-and-equalities-committee-chair

Funny given that the title of the committee is WOMEN and equality how little women feature in either statement.

I suppose as always we women will just have to be happy to be an afterthough every now and again.

Politicians all over the bloody western world do this: ask them difficult or propbing questions about the failure to uphold women’s rights and they start waffling at double speed about all things trans 🤷‍♀️ Why they don’t realise from their own behaviour that the two sets of rights are oppositional to each other is beyond me.

IwantToRetire · 12/09/2024 17:52

Why they don’t realise from their own behaviour that the two sets of rights are oppositional to each other is beyond me.

Because most of society dont think that women have rights. Women's role is to support men.

If you dont recognise women as autonomous equal human beings but just a sub set of men, you of course assume women will not be so revolutionary as to suggest that their rights might be of equal merit as men's!

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IwantToRetire · 13/09/2024 00:13

Karen Ingala Smith on Sarah Owens WH interview

When asked what a woman is, Owen for some reason found herself unable to answer the question. Instead, she said ‘somebody that is going to be paid less than their male counterparts, somebody that is going to be less safe walking down the streets and somebody that faces more barriers in the workplace, education and health sector. These are not examples of what a woman is, they are examples of sex-inequality. They are examples of how the sex-hierarchy operates in patriarchal societies. Indeed, they are issues that we might suppose fall within the remit of the WESC. If we managed to eradicate all these examples of sex inequality, the biological category of women would still exist. But we need to be able to identify women if we are to show how we are discriminated against.

I was surprised to hear Owen say that most of the debate around the clash between women’s sex-based rights and protections had happened without ‘transwomen’s’ voices. Perhaps she hasn’t read the 2016 WESC Transgender Equality Report. I opened my book with a reference to this report. It included the nonsense claim that each of us is assigned sex at birth and quoted a newspaper article citing the disputed ‘sobering and distressing fact that in UK surveys of trans people about half of young people and a third of adults report that they have attempted suicide’. The report included quotes from the Scottish Transgender Alliance recommending the removal of the single-sex exceptions, from Galop, an LGBT anti-abuse charity, which claimed that transgender people are currently at serious risk of harm by being excluded from such services sexual and domestic violence and abuse services and one Mridul Wadhwa, who is quoted saying: ‘I am disappointed to think that someone has the right to refuse work to me and others like me in my sector [the sexual and domestic violence and abuse sector] just because they think that I might not be a woman.’ And we all know how his appointment turned out, don’t we?

Far from the voices of trans identified males not having been heard, the government announced that the Gender Recognition Act was to be reviewed following recommendations of the WESC report. The committee, then chaired by Maria Miller MP, had called 20 people (outside of MPs) as witnesses to the inquiry which preceded the report. Kathleen Stock summarised those who were called as witnesses thus: eleven of the twenty represented trans activist organisations, while the remaining nine were relatively neutral experts, though some of these were also trans themselves. No women’s groups were called to give evidence, though some had made written submissions, and neither was anyone who had voiced concerns about transitioning. In fact, one of the reasons that Woman’s Place UK was founded in 2017 was to help ensure that women’s voices were heard – as it was ours, not those of males who identified as transgender or organisations servicing their interests, which had been excluded.

Perhaps it is understandable that the day after her appointment as Chair was announced, Owen was not familiar with the history of the committee, including the highly significant report that it had published eight years earlier. But this gap in her knowledge should not have resulted in her making a claim which was quite the opposite of the history of the committee that she now chairs. It hardly suggests that she is capable of hearing women’s concerns or recognising when we are not heard by others. And, I’d add, the ‘say what you want to think is true because it suits your narrative regardless of its basis in fact’ is entirely consistent with the input of transgender identity ideology advocates: their false claims about suicide, denial of the harms of puberty blockers, denial of the extent of the medicalisation and sterilisation of minors, exaggeration of the levels of serious harm and violence to persons with transgender identities in the UK and so on.

These are just bits I picked out. The whole article can be read at https://kareningalasmith.com/2024/09/12/sarah-owen-mp-newly-elected-chair-of-the-women-and-equalities-select-committee-on-womans-hour/

Sarah Owen, MP, newly elected chair of the Women and Equalities Select Committee, on Woman’s Hour

Sarah Owen, MP (Labour) for Luton North was elected Chair of the parliamentary Women and Equalities Select Committee (WESC) on 11th September 2024. The following morning, she was a guest on Woman’s…

https://kareningalasmith.com/2024/09/12/sarah-owen-mp-newly-elected-chair-of-the-women-and-equalities-select-committee-on-womans-hour

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IwantToRetire · 13/09/2024 01:12

J.K. Rowling
@jk_rowling

So the interests of British women and girls are now in the hands of a politician who can't define what a woman is, but is certain men are women if they say they are. Fabulous news.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1834183580592795695

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UtopiaPlanitia · 13/09/2024 02:49

IwantToRetire · 13/09/2024 00:13

Karen Ingala Smith on Sarah Owens WH interview

When asked what a woman is, Owen for some reason found herself unable to answer the question. Instead, she said ‘somebody that is going to be paid less than their male counterparts, somebody that is going to be less safe walking down the streets and somebody that faces more barriers in the workplace, education and health sector. These are not examples of what a woman is, they are examples of sex-inequality. They are examples of how the sex-hierarchy operates in patriarchal societies. Indeed, they are issues that we might suppose fall within the remit of the WESC. If we managed to eradicate all these examples of sex inequality, the biological category of women would still exist. But we need to be able to identify women if we are to show how we are discriminated against.

I was surprised to hear Owen say that most of the debate around the clash between women’s sex-based rights and protections had happened without ‘transwomen’s’ voices. Perhaps she hasn’t read the 2016 WESC Transgender Equality Report. I opened my book with a reference to this report. It included the nonsense claim that each of us is assigned sex at birth and quoted a newspaper article citing the disputed ‘sobering and distressing fact that in UK surveys of trans people about half of young people and a third of adults report that they have attempted suicide’. The report included quotes from the Scottish Transgender Alliance recommending the removal of the single-sex exceptions, from Galop, an LGBT anti-abuse charity, which claimed that transgender people are currently at serious risk of harm by being excluded from such services sexual and domestic violence and abuse services and one Mridul Wadhwa, who is quoted saying: ‘I am disappointed to think that someone has the right to refuse work to me and others like me in my sector [the sexual and domestic violence and abuse sector] just because they think that I might not be a woman.’ And we all know how his appointment turned out, don’t we?

Far from the voices of trans identified males not having been heard, the government announced that the Gender Recognition Act was to be reviewed following recommendations of the WESC report. The committee, then chaired by Maria Miller MP, had called 20 people (outside of MPs) as witnesses to the inquiry which preceded the report. Kathleen Stock summarised those who were called as witnesses thus: eleven of the twenty represented trans activist organisations, while the remaining nine were relatively neutral experts, though some of these were also trans themselves. No women’s groups were called to give evidence, though some had made written submissions, and neither was anyone who had voiced concerns about transitioning. In fact, one of the reasons that Woman’s Place UK was founded in 2017 was to help ensure that women’s voices were heard – as it was ours, not those of males who identified as transgender or organisations servicing their interests, which had been excluded.

Perhaps it is understandable that the day after her appointment as Chair was announced, Owen was not familiar with the history of the committee, including the highly significant report that it had published eight years earlier. But this gap in her knowledge should not have resulted in her making a claim which was quite the opposite of the history of the committee that she now chairs. It hardly suggests that she is capable of hearing women’s concerns or recognising when we are not heard by others. And, I’d add, the ‘say what you want to think is true because it suits your narrative regardless of its basis in fact’ is entirely consistent with the input of transgender identity ideology advocates: their false claims about suicide, denial of the harms of puberty blockers, denial of the extent of the medicalisation and sterilisation of minors, exaggeration of the levels of serious harm and violence to persons with transgender identities in the UK and so on.

These are just bits I picked out. The whole article can be read at https://kareningalasmith.com/2024/09/12/sarah-owen-mp-newly-elected-chair-of-the-women-and-equalities-select-committee-on-womans-hour/

I mean…left-leaning feminists (and feminists of other perspectives) argued with Ingala-Smith et al before the general election that Labour were absolute and definite in not promising to correct the direction of travel in civic society or legislation to return rights to women.

The most we got from Labour politicians when pushed hard on various national media was the very Kamala Harris style deflection of ‘We’re open to having that conversation.' OR 'Respectful debate could be something to consider'.

<cue aside to camera> They were not open to any discussion.

We were told by Ingala-Smith et al that there were important discussions going on behind the scenes or that we needed to vote Labour into power first and then we’d get a seat at the table as a reward.

So far, women are not getting anywhere with this government when it comes to women’s rights: Labour think that the GRA 2004 and the EA 2010 are pinnacles of modern legislation and they are not inclined to fix the problems that these Acts have created.

They only agreed to make some fixes to the problems happening with children and adolescents in the fields of health & education because to go against the Cass Review recommendations would’ve been political suicide.

Women, however, are as the Americans so succinctly and evocatively say SHIT OUT OF LUCK.

ArabellaScott · 13/09/2024 06:55

We were told by Ingala-Smith et al that there were important discussions going on behind the scenes or that we needed to vote Labour into power first and then we’d get a seat at the table as a reward.

Were we ever promised a seat at the table? I only heard abuse for questioning Labour. Been called a 'Sad Tory Loser' only yesterday on here, for being unhappy about rapists and domestic abusers being released early from prison.

fromorbit · 13/09/2024 09:54

IwantToRetire · 12/09/2024 17:13

Have only found this after a quick search of the process to select committee members. Looks like it could take a while.

And committee membership will reflect number of seats in Parliament, ie the committee will be Labour dominated.

You have to scroll down quite a long way to find the relevant section for anyone interested https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/election-select-committee-chairs-and-members

So Members are elected from within the party:
Once the party balance of each committee is determined, membership elections are held within each party. These have been held since 2010, after the Commons endorsed the principle that each party “should elect members of select committees in a secret ballot by whichever transparent and democratic method they choose”. The process used by each party will determine the time it takes; in recent parliaments the process has been completed within around a month of the election of committee chairs.

So it will be interesting to see who gets in as members.

Regardless of the chair TAs are not going to get their own way. We keep fighting to improve all the parties... that is the only way to win.

All the parties betrayed women and kids they just do it in different ways. We need rebels within the parties and people calling ALL of them to account from outside.

StainlessSteelMouse · 13/09/2024 13:01

ArabellaScott · 13/09/2024 06:55

We were told by Ingala-Smith et al that there were important discussions going on behind the scenes or that we needed to vote Labour into power first and then we’d get a seat at the table as a reward.

Were we ever promised a seat at the table? I only heard abuse for questioning Labour. Been called a 'Sad Tory Loser' only yesterday on here, for being unhappy about rapists and domestic abusers being released early from prison.

The whole premise of WPUK's existence is to be the people who will have that seat at the table. The wee man knows I have my differences with WPUK, but it's important to have women who are Labour insiders, who know the structures and can do the networking and policy development.

My only problem with when the Labour partisans deny the legitimacy of any other approach and try to shame us into tribal loyalty. Look at America for where tribal loyalty gets you. It gets you a lunatic like Tim Walz who's made Minnesota a sanctuary state for medically transitioning kids, and Democrat women so fearful of the GOP that they're constructing fantasies in their heads about Harris somehow becoming sensible on the issue.

Thankfully we aren't that polarised here, but the Labour partisans would like us to be.

IwantToRetire · 13/09/2024 16:59

I think I may have said this yesterday, but I really despair at the lack of democracy that the 2 party system has created.

Because MPs put party loyalty before "doing the right thing".

It wouldn't be a catastrophe if every vote was a free vote. Why shouldn't constituency MPs be able to vote based on what they think is best.

Why is it thought that some small cabal, many of whom are back room manipulaters, get to decide.

The majority party as the Government still gets to be the one to put forward new laws, ammendmentes etc..

And if Committees are also made to operate in a loyalty to Party first, then they lose their point.

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