Which stories could change someone’s mind?

[BrightGreenLeaves]

I’ve been thinking a lot recently about how I’m not going to hide my views anymore. I’ve already started this in my personal life but not yet at work.

If someone was opening to reading a bit more about the erosion of women’s rights and single sex spaces, what would be the one article or news story that you would share?

If it were me, I might share Sarah’s story about her experience at Sussex rape crisis. I think it would be quite hard for any compassionate person to argue that what happened to her was ok.

I’m on a charity Facebook group and someone share the pronouns are like rohypnol article. It didn’t work and they just got kicked out the group.

Are there any other articles that anyone thinks would be helpful? Something that someone could go away and read in their own time.

I’ve also name changed, as I do periodically.

I'm not sure I'd start with a large Facebook group. Is the charity to do with rape crisis? (You mentioned Sarah's case in Brighton). So far I have only discussed this with my husband and daughter in real life. I have learned the words 'main stream media' are a right wing conspiracy theory dog whistle (according to my husband) and if you misgender Caster Semenya while trying to discuss male athletic advantage your daughter will tell you off. So, I have no advice. My husband is broadly supportive but worries I'm becoming right wing (because I said I was disillusioned with main stream media coverage of the issue). I was thinking of getting my book group to discuss it but haven't got round to it yet.

Yes, I avoid saying mainstream media. Because the only people I know who have historically said that are actual conspiracy theorists who think that Bill Gates was linked to Covid.

The charity Facebook group was for people who work in the charity sector.

i think book group could work maybe? I’m interested in trying to talk to people who just haven’t thought that deeply about this. Rather than people who are trans rights activists and so would be less easily persuadable.

I think that, sadly, some people who are committed to gender ideology won't let anything change their mind. I shared some information with an acquaintance on Facebook recently and she declared anyone that I quoted (Sharron Davies, Emma Hilton etc) to be "hateful". I am hoping though that some of what I shared with her will have got through, even if she doesn't want to admit it just yet - or I might be being overly optimistic.

We thought people would change their mind when it came to sports but then lots of people were vigorously defending the rights of two men to punch women in the face at the Olympics.

We thought people would change their mind when it came to rape crisis centres.

We thought people would change their minds when it came to vulnerable women in prison.

The stories of Ritchie Herron and Keira Bell are pretty horrific so it might be worth sharing them but then those defending gender ideology could dismiss them as one offs or that they weren't 'true trans'.

i know it’s so hard, isn’t it. But then I think that I changed my mind so surely there must be others!

Ooh but by admitting there is such a category as not 'true trans' a 'true trans' would then have to concede that some manipulative opportunistic men might use the guise of self-ID to gain access to women's spaces to either get predatory kicks or, y'know, win medals!

I found this article absolutely heartbreaking and so horrifying for the poor girl.

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/holyrood-summit-hears-from-teens-parents-and-experts-who-claim-children-are-pressured-by-activists-into-swapping-genders/

This is one of the best things I've read on the subject :
https://www.philosophersmag.com/essays/321-the-transgender-rights-issue

It's a longer read than some people may be willing to do but quickly gets into it.
A friend who was "live and let live" actually changed their stance after reading it, and once my handful of Believer friends bring up the subject I will send it to them and ask them to counter it (or at least try!).

Sport is a good way in. Most Brits have a bedrock sense of fair play, and the visual of a hulking TW towering over much smaller female athletes has an immediate impact.

Sport is a good way in. Most Brits have a bedrock sense of fair play, and the visual of a hulking TW towering over much smaller female athletes has an immediate impact.

That’s a hard read. But very compelling. And useful to have a link to an article that is about safeguarding children.

K Dolatowski. 6ft 5 man (who ids as a woman) who has committed two crimes against children in 'women's' toilets. Was imprisoned for a short while for the second one.

Tends to shut up the 'but this never happens' line. Also, I doubt if those toilets were clearly labelled as mixed sex that a girl would have been allowed in there alone. But they weren't honestly labelled so the retailer was to blame for what happened too.

This is great too. Definitely one for anyone who like to read about ideas or is into philosophy. It so well expresses how it is a belief system.

Thanks. Will check this out. It sure if it’s the same but there was a man filming under the door in women’s toilets recently. and when the police went in he put on a high voice and said he was a woman.

I'm the same as you OP, I don't often express my GC views publicly but I have shared this article about Sarah and the lack of woman only rape crisis provision .

https://unherd.com/2022/07/why-im-suing-survivors-network/

Thanks for that article. It’s almost unbelievable that so many rape crisis centres are no longer single sex. It’s a perpetrator’s dream scenario.

I don't know if there is one right way, there's just so many disturbing stories now, the men who have committed horrific crimes being put in women's prisons is pretty stark. Or accounts of either detransitioners or pp who have had surgery that has gone very wrong. I have photos on my kindle of what the 'gender affirming ' surgery looks like in girls, as well as some of the more creepy men in their bad wigs and provocative outfits.

The bigger problem though is getting pp to believe you as the propaganda has been very effective and some people will not listen to you, no matter what you say to them. Or they find it too bewildering, or just want to 'be kind'.It's hard sometimes to not sound like a conspiracy theorist as it's so mad ( and pretty sinister tbh ). A few years ago I tried talking to my older sister about it and she said, ' if this is such a big deal as you're making it out to be, why isn't it being reported in The Guardian or The BBC?'.Why indeed?

Maybe you could start a conversation more gently by asking someone what they think about JK Rowling? And then talk a bit about what she actually said ( instead of what pp think she has said...) Or ask them if they think that Eddie Izzard is ACTUALLY a woman?

I think starting gently is a good idea. Because there are so many conspiracy theories out there and it’s easy to dismiss someone by saying that they have just watched too much YouTube or whatever.

When I’ve mentioned prisons in the past, someone said that trans women were actually much more vulnerable. But I think that came from a place of ignorance and not realising what crimes had been committed.

This is brilliant. Thanks so much for sharing

Yeah I just think post Lia Thomas, Isla Bryson, Cass Review... these are big stories and I think if you haven't been baited by any of these to form a strong opinion then I think either you don't want to get involved, you want to virtue signal & ignore stories like these or you're fine with it all because it doesn't affect you.
If you haven't terfed out by now not sure you are going to.

Try changing your tactics. Instead of demanding people leave their position and adopt yours, demand they give your position respect, because that's how rights work.

In some situations women need facilities provided on the basis of sex, not gender identity. They may never need to use those facilities, but other women are still using them.

I find you need to tailor your arguments to your audience. Some things resonate more with some people.

Coincidentally, I think there is a sex divide here too! Generally speaking, I think more women than men would respond to the Sarah’s story of the rape crisis centre. Men seem to understand the issues in sports more than changing rooms.

When speaking to men, it can help to quote men - Even Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner has said it would not be fair for them to compete against women in running or golf etc.

I still really find it hard to understand why anybody has believed that what has happened is acceptable. That you can change sex is an extraordinary idea, that we should see cross dressing men as stunning and brave, that any male can be included in lesbian group or sport for women..and I feel betrayed by those who still believe there is no problem. If they are still believers they are never going to change, sadly.

In some situations women need facilities provided on the basis of sex, not gender identity. They may never need to use those facilities, but other women are still using them. This is a great way of summing this up.

Ive tended to say that men’s and women’s bodies are different and sometimes that matters.

The medical scandal side of all this is not something I’ve touched on yet with people.