People who have the condition are born with ovaries?!

[Confusedovaries]

I have just read a Guardian article about polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS). In the article, it says that “people with the condition were born with ovaries”, as well as two of three other features.

This sentence doesn’t flow particularly easily, so I re-read it a couple of times to try and clarify the point. Tell me - is it using this phraseology in order to avoid saying “women”? Throughout the article, it refers to “people” with PCOS rather than “women”.

I don’t usually contribute to this board, but this has troubled me. How can it not be possible to talk about women’s health, without using the word “women”? Please tell me I’ve misinterpreted!

PCOS article

I know and that incensed me. Not only is iit nonsense but I cannot imagine what that would do to a young teeneager struggling with the diagnosis and coming to terms with it. Really something all caring for teenage girls need to be aware of

Not going to @ you all individually because you’re all making the same point - you call her a man but you don’t have x-ray vision, aren’t her doctor or part of the IOC… Thanks for proving my original point, though. Never happy, you lot.

Two boxers failed their organising body's eligibility test for women's boxing. The test was based on chromosones. That is the basis for questioning their sex. Why do you think neither boxer appealed the test?

Can we please not derail this thread into another discussion about those boxers? There are plenty of other threads for that.

PCOS is an issue which affects so many women and girls. I'm certainly never going to be happy about the distorted, disrespectful, non-inclusive language of the sort employed by the woman who wrote that guardian piece.

I hate this assault on language. From the people who brought us the Style Guide too, so concerned as to whether to use actor or actress. But that was inconsequential by comparison. This attempted erasure of the word 'woman' is, literally, Orwellian. And it's a very bad faith argument to attempt to claim that it's all being done for the benefit of a few individuals who identify as men. If anyone is seriously trying to claim that.

Given the Guardian's origins, I expect better. Thats what I expect.

What errol said

any comments yourself regarding the OP?

It's avoiding the word 'woman' passim. 'Menstruating people' is included as well as 'born with ovaries'.
Article is by a woman so wtaf?
The Guardian lost me nearly 30 years ago - it's so woke it falls over its imaginary penis.
Ooh! Missed this bit half-way through (scanning, I'm afraid): ' long-held and widely quantified truth that, medically, women’s bodies just don’t matter all that much'. So she knows and she still does it!

How can it not be possible to talk about women’s health, without using the word “women”?

Seconding everyone who says it isn't possible to do so in a way that's readily understood. So, inclusion (general) is sacrificed in the name of greater inclusivity (relatively niche).

Sarah Dahlen: Do we need the word ‘woman’ in healthcare?

Should clinicians be using the word ‘woman’ in medical language? Are phrases like ‘human milk’, ‘parental’ and ‘hand-held notes’ preferable to ‘breastmilk’, ‘maternal’ and ‘maternity notes’1? Whether to adopt a new terminology is a complex question, worthy of reflection and analysis, and open dialogue between patients, clinicians and academics. While new phrases might be argued as socially progressive, their ability to translate into medical practice or general health messaging seems currently uncertain. Clinicians might be put into a difficult position of balancing various concerns around language choice in healthcare communication, and it is, therefore, important they are aware of multiple viewpoints.

https://pmj.bmj.com/content/97/1150/483

DM article (linked below) is a good overview of this academic paper:
Effective Communication About Pregnancy, Birth, Lactation, Breastfeeding and Newborn Care: The Importance of Sexed Language
Front. Glob. Womens Health, 07 February 2022
Sec. Maternal Health
Volume 3 - 2022 | https://doi.org/10.3389/fgwh.2022.818856

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/global-womens-health/articles/10.3389/fgwh.2022.818856/full

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10458159/Experts-warn-health-fears-replacing-mum-birth-giver.html

Helen Lewis: In Defense of Saying ‘Pregnant Women’

short URL of the mess below: https://shorturl.at/SNt7v

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20211029200833/www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/pregnant-women-people-feminism-language/620468" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20211029200833/www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/pregnant-women-people-feminism-language/620468/

Well apparently, PCOS "can affect gender identity".
/irony/ I thought my gender id was feminine but since my ovaries gave me acne and raging PMS I figure I'm masculine./

Well apparently, PCOS "can affect gender identity"

oh well they can just fuck off with that

ridiculous

Unfortunately, nowadays it may cause some youngsters to question their 'gender identity'. It'd be interesting to know if, along with autism, there's more girls with PCOS who do.... but, it's terribly underdiagnosed prior to women TTC and finding they're subfertile so I very much doubt the data exists.

deleted - my post didn't make sense!

Just seen this on x and fired off a complaint.

How dare they do this.

Smacks of find and replace at the last minute

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13816361/study-Gen-Zs-womans-pleasure-centre-is.html

A new survey commissioned by The Urology Foundation found just 41 per cent of men aged 18-24 are aware of where the clitoris is on a female body, compared to 70 per cent of 55 to 64 year-olds.

Across all ages, 61 per cent correctly identified the region.

But the survey of 2,000 UK men showed they were more knowledgeable about female sexual anatomy than their own.

In fact, only 48 per cent of men aged 18 to 24 knew the location of their prostate.

A previous YouGov survey showed that almost half of Brits do not know where the vagina is — and it's not just men who are ignorant.

The 2019 poll revealed almost half of women could not label the vagina. And around half of both genders didn't know where the labia was.

It revealed a third of men of all ages didn't know where the clitoris was.

Only 38 per cent of 18 to 24-year-olds surveyed knew the location of the prostate compared to 58 per cent of 55 to 64-year-olds.

Not surprising the numbers improve with age - more time to have had the, "Left a bit. Down a bit. Nearly ... . No. Oh for fuck's sake - here!' conversation.

And they say romance is dead...

Waitingfordoggo

If someone hasn’t started their periods by the time they’re 16 (which will be at least 50% of people), should they all go to their GP to ask for investigation? After all they might have ovaries they don’t know about.

That's an excellently made point! And a good example of why clear, concise language is vital, especially in matters of medicine and health.

And prostrate cancer is for people with prostrates? Should we all get checked 😁Just in case?

It does sound like it!

How on earth would you know that? 🫠

I do not have sufficient words to express the stupidity of this bullshit movement.

Did this just get moved to the naughty corner? 🙄

No it started here but in 2024