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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Poll-topping Austrian party vows to enshrine two genders in constitution

11 replies

miri1985 · 31/08/2024 16:06

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/08/31/austria-freedom-party-ban-trans-athletes-womens-sport-fundi/

https://archive.ph/zXIQC

Wonder how this will work with the ECHR given that they are generally the one that have insisted countries have GRA's but given the primacy of a Constitution in the legal order, presumably they won't be able to force Austria to change this if it is put into their Constitution

Also if they are doing this I hope its poor reporting by the Telegraph and they're putting in two sexes not two genders

Poll-topping Austrian party vows to enshrine two genders in constitution

Election manifesto pledges to ban trans athletes from women’s sport and funding for woke ideology

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/08/31/austria-freedom-party-ban-trans-athletes-womens-sport-fundi

OP posts:
MarieDeGournay · 31/08/2024 18:19

Even the Telegraph call the FPO [sorry can't find the umlaut] 'far-right'Sad
And I agree that if they've used 'gender' instead of 'sex', they aren't saying what they think they're saying.
But that hinges on what those words are in German, which I don't speak, but as I always say: someone on FWR knows everything, so I expect somebody will be along soon to explain 'sex' vs 'gender' in German.

IwantToRetire · 31/08/2024 18:31

The archive link in OP doesn't work that this seems to https://archive.is/zXIQC

Not sure why the Telegraph headed it as being about gender.

So I found an English version of their manifesto, and unless these is an additional bit not formally part of the manifesto, doesn't say quite what the article says. The following section is the only one that refers to gender that I could see:

4) Family and generations
The family, as a partnership between a man and a woman with common children, is the natural nucleus that holds a functioning society together, and which, with the solidarity of the generations, underpins our sustainability.
We are committed to equal opportunities between men and women, to mutual respect and to fair incomes, regardless of gender.
We emphatically reject the preferential treatment of a gender to overcome actual or perceived discrimination. Statistical inequalities caused by a variety of factors cannot be evened out by wronging individual people. This is why we speak out against any quota regulation or "gender mainstreaming".
The family, characterised by the responsibility of partners and generations for one another, is the foundation of our society. A child turns a partnership between a man and a woman into a family. Those who take on this responsibility as a single parent form a family with their children.
We are committed to the primacy of marriage between a man and a woman as a distinct way of protecting child welfare. Only partnerships between men and women provide our society with a wealth of children. We reject a separate legal institution for same-sex relations.
As part of the state's role as a protector we acknowledge the need to intervene in the autonomy of the family only where the failure of the family concerned is clearly damaging the welfare of the child.
If parents separate, the emphasis must be placed on maintaining joint responsibility for the child. In the tax system, families are to be construed as an economic community. The pension system must take account of years spent caring for children as well as caring for relatives.
Taking care of children within the security of a family takes precedence for us over substitute state-run systems. Parents should receive benefits to support them with this until school entrance age. At the same time we advocate a broad range of child-care places to offer genuine choice to the benefit of child welfare and professional development.
No leniency should be shown to brute force, especially against children. We are committed to the most severe rules of criminal law for crimes committed against children and vulnerable members of our society.
Austria's future depends on our young people. The purpose of our liberal youth policy is to have enlightened and mature citizens, equipped with all the knowledge and skills they require to hold their own as free and settled individuals.
We are committed to solidarity between the generations and recognise the social, cultural, economic and political contributions as well as the life experience of older generations. We advocate the participation of all generations in decision-making processes and the making of democratic decisions.
We are committed to a harmonised, performance-based and social state pension system as well as corporate and private pension planning.
We are determined to respect the dignity of the elderly and combat all forms of neglect, abuse and violence.
https://www.fpoe.at/parteiprogramm/parteiprogramm-englisch/

Is there a stand alone statement about this?

Parteiprogramm (englisch) – Freiheitliche Partei Österreichs

Homepage der Freiheitlichen Partei Österreichs (FPÖ) und des FPÖ Parlamentsklubs. Hier finden Sie tagespolitisch aktuelle Inhalte aber auch Informationen über unsere freiheitlichen Funktionäre sowie unsere Regierungsmitglieder.

https://www.fpoe.at/parteiprogramm/parteiprogramm-englisch

Maerchentante · 31/08/2024 18:54

The FPÖ are pretty right wing from my understanding, the German word for both Gender and Sex is "Geschlecht" so it is hart to distinguish without using "biological" and "social".
It would not surprise me if the AFD in Germany had something similar in their manifesto.

Maerchentante · 31/08/2024 19:15

Sorry, can't edit anymore, it should, of course, be "hard to distinguish". My German brain and my English brain seem quite mixed up tonight.

IwantToRetire · 31/08/2024 19:34

Maerchentante · 31/08/2024 18:54

The FPÖ are pretty right wing from my understanding, the German word for both Gender and Sex is "Geschlecht" so it is hart to distinguish without using "biological" and "social".
It would not surprise me if the AFD in Germany had something similar in their manifesto.

Thanks for the info about having one word for both sex and gender.

And in the translation ot English of the manifesto in the same sentence the word sex and gender are used.

But was also interested to see, as it isn't in the manifesto, if there is some separate policy document about the proposals as outlined in the OP.

LifeofBrienne · 31/08/2024 19:45

So they want to get rid of any positive discrimination in favour of women. And definitely don’t like lesbian families. I’m not sure this would be a win for feminism. Do they have any views on abortion?

miri1985 · 31/08/2024 19:56

LifeofBrienne · 31/08/2024 19:45

So they want to get rid of any positive discrimination in favour of women. And definitely don’t like lesbian families. I’m not sure this would be a win for feminism. Do they have any views on abortion?

Can't find their views on abortion but I didn't know the situation was so dire in Austria for women seeking abortions https://www.politico.eu/article/europes-growing-abortion-nightmare/

"“Abortions are not legal in Austria,” said Anna Maria Lampert from Changes for Women — a Vienna-based NGO raising funds to help pregnant women get access to safe abortions. In Austria, abortion has been regulated through the criminal code since 1975. “You are exempt from punishment in the first three months of pregnancy if you voluntarily decide to have an abortion. But that doesn’t mean they’re legal,” she said."

"Across Europe, abortion is only covered by health insurance if it has to be carried out for medical reasons — which is rarely the case. So, in many countries, only private clinics provide this medical service, which means women have to pay for it out-of-pocket.
In Austria, for example, an abortion can cost between €300 to €1,000. Peer shared that she was able to use her mother’s extra insurance when terminating her pregnancy, otherwise she estimates she would have had to put down around €1,300 — as abortions are also subject to a 20 percent value-added tax (VAT) in Austria.
“It is not recognized as a medical treatment; the state says it is [a woman’s] hobby, sarcastically speaking,” Yaman explained. "

Europe’s growing abortion nightmare

Even in the absence of a ban, for women in need of abortion access, the overall picture is grim — and the worst is yet to come.

https://www.politico.eu/article/europes-growing-abortion-nightmare

OP posts:
MarieDeGournay · 01/09/2024 00:20

Only partnerships between men and women provide our society with a wealth of children. We reject a separate legal institution for same-sex relations.

Well that makes their position clear, doesn't it?🙁

IwantToRetire · 01/09/2024 00:32

A child turns a partnership between a man and a woman into a family. Those who take on this responsibility as a single parent form a family with their children.

I found this quite strange given how much emphasis they put on traditional family values, and being the heart of the nation, etc..

And then, rational or not, it popped into my mind that the bit about single parents is probably about women. Not because they approve of women being single mothers, but to let men know they wont be blamed for abandoning / not supporting a woman they have got pregnant, or a wife and child/ren they desert.

LifeofBrienne · 01/09/2024 07:19

@miri1985 Well that’s depressing about abortions. It’s really depressing looking round the world at the state of things for women at the moment.
Also, would they try and get rid of same-sex marriage?

MarieDeGournay · 01/09/2024 11:02

LifeofBrienne · 01/09/2024 07:19

@miri1985 Well that’s depressing about abortions. It’s really depressing looking round the world at the state of things for women at the moment.
Also, would they try and get rid of same-sex marriage?

Yes they explicitly say
We reject a separate legal institution for same-sex relations.

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