Neil Gaiman Accused Of Sexual Assault Pt II

[hihelenhi]

As we're nearly at the end of the first thread, let's make sure we keep the topic current.

There have been five women now who have spoken to podcasts about the predatory behaviour of Neil Gaiman.

First thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5112128-neil-gaiman-accused-of-sexual-assault

On the basis that the really evil people in this scandal are those they refer to as TERFs, and because Tennant is anti-TERF, then he's anti-evil, ie good.

This thinking, that Gaiman must be supported because the evil TERFs are out to get him, is replicated across many thrreads on Reddit. It's amazing to see.

Yeah, the guy who made a joke about one of his co-stars sexually harassing other members of the cast and production, and laughed it off as ‘tee hee isn’t he a one’ is apparently some shining beacon of morality who’s single handedly halted GO3.
They really are determined to have heroes to worship, and not terribly bright themselves.

He had plenty to say when wanting Kemi Badenoch to disappear....

Somewhat related but does anyone know right off what if anything NG has ever said about JKR?

Some stellar critical thinking there. Have people always been so stupid or is it some sort of side effect of microplastics or something?

DT gives me the creeps, always has done.

I don't rmeber any direct comments. Je signed an open letter that was supposedly a response to the open letter supporting her, but it's all very vague. www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/stephen-king-margaret-atwood-transgender-open-letter-jk-rowling-b912344.html

Slightly irrelevant to the thread, but has anyone read NG's Blueberry Girl?

We were given it as a gift for our eldest when she was a baby and I've always thought the line about "bad husbands at 30" was fucking creepy as a line in a child's book

It took me a while to pluck up the courage to listen to the Tortoise podcasts (worth it. They are good, careful, thorough and thoughtful) and even longer to catch up on these threads. Lots to think about.

The main thing that strikes me is that all the focus on consent and what was/wasn't consensual distracts from the core point.

The stuff he's not even contesting is vile and horrible. It's predatory. He's a man in his sixties, who, for decades, has a pattern of cultivating a supply of vulnerable women for his sexual enjoyment. They're very young, they're fans, they're estranged from family, they're dependent on him for somewhere to live etc etc. Even before you get to the question of non-consensual acts (and I'm not minimising the importance of those in any way!), even the stuff he's happy to admit to is completely repulsive and wrong. We've all just been coached, as a society, to be so reluctant to judge. Sorry. I am unapologetic about JUDGING as a complete wrong'un a man who propositions a (clearly vulnerable) employee forty years younger than him and embarks on a casual three week adventure of 'light BDSM' (his words) before disposing of her. Even if he did believe these women were consenting, his behaviour is disgusting.

Secondly, it's consolidated for me a lot of my concerns about how children and young people are being taught in RSE lessons that consent is everything. Telling children that anything goes if everyone consents to it is a groomer's license to operate. So many of those (otherwise baffling) messages from the women read to me like women trying to persuade themselves that 'Yes, I did consent, because otherwise something really, really dreadful just happened'. Makes me think I need to have some conversations with my teenage children about this.

And thirdly, AP's relationship with that young woman was clearly exploitative before she invited her to be their 'nanny'. A friendship struck up on the street which seems to have taken the form of Scarlett 'running errands for her'. I can't believe she didn't know what she was setting that young woman up for.

Blueberry girl is about Tori Amos' daughter. I've never read it. Bad husbands at 30 sounds rather odd

I did not expect Margaret Atwood to have signed that!

Margaret Atwood has been very disappointing on this front.

Perhaps we should write an open letter to Neil Gaiman

Astwood dipped the tiniest of toes into TERFery, got pushback, and fled.

Margaret Atwood does not believe TWAW. It's literally impossible for her to believe it. Her feminism is too explicitly based on female bodies and their reproductive capacity.

I think, for her as a good liberal Canadian, she knew TWAW was something you should say. But she thought it was a polite fiction that nobody believed. She got that wrong.

Agree very much.
Some okay and fun stuff, but fucking hell the tweeness and drawn out fucking «Battle» and then the end. Just no.

Anything not related to the Bible was - not so good 😬

So if Amazon Prime is on its way to cancelling a show with Tennant and Sheen… then shit may be about to hit the fan.

Yes. I was gifted this for my newborn. Read it and thought it was shite and never read it to my kids. Agree about the husband at 30 line. Not written for kids, is it?

Will NG have been idolized by young men women, often feeling a little ostracized by society and very much into alternative scenes such as sci fi. I remember very much back in the day both girls possibly teaching out to unsuitable men (often unattractive) as they had an artificial dark gravitas?

I guess they were novel groupies, a little rarer than music groupies, but still groupies being open to sexual expoitation.

Any thoughts on the cancellation of dead boys detectives by the way? Maybe Netflix are catching on but shot for the actors.

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/dead-boy-detectives-canceled-netflix-1236124484/

I see what you're saying.

Realistically, there seems very little chance of a prosecution, for various reasons.

I also get the point, but Gaiman lives by the sword and dies by the sword, as a man happy to join in cancelling others. I have never supported that sort of action.

Also:

deadline.com/2024/09/good-omens-production-paused-on-amazon-drama-neil-gaiman-1236082924/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwY2xjawFNcvJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHRb_GG4xnOZhCDBbJqcU5fTZ7sOquPR2Ya3YB73yYvRJktB6iF5InqE2fw_aem_7VKN6xHFSe3yliNvmJzFLA

Been looking through some posts elsewhere looking for other books to read in place of NG - lots of posts recommended Roger Zelazny's A Night in the Lonesome October. Great, I thought! Then saw this...

Is nothing sacred???

He's always been a very prolific blurber.

I'll say this in favour of NG, he's never hidden the books that influenced him. Lots of those classics are well worth checking out. Maybe I've always found him a bit meh as an author because I already knew the old books.

If you want a suggestion, Jack Williamson's Darker Than You Think is an old favourite of mine.

I noticed my collection of Diana Wynne Jones’ writing has an intro by Gaiman. I’m not burning it or anything but I think I skipped it originally because I think he’s an overrated plagiarising knobhead. And now, it seems, a predator too.

I did read The Graveyard Book and I like the concept, but the description of the servant girl ghost gave me the Ick. Iirc it’s something to do with how men have abused her and it seemed out of place in a book for children. I probably picked it up because of Chris Riddell’s illustrations. I assume he has remained silent on the allegations too?