How to raise happy, well-adjusted sons amid toxic masculinity?

[IwantToRetire]

(NB I am not posting this because I agree with the article, which is about promoting a book, but thought it is an issue that is so very relevant.)

“They’ve spent their entire adolescence in the shadow of this conversation about toxic masculinity.

“Psychologically, that’s a lot for a teenager to take on when they’re navigating.” During this time, of course, they also endured the pandemic, isolated at home, the internet their only window to the world.

“I talked to many boys and they’re feeling alienated and self-loathing. Some are becoming incredibly avoidant, saying, ‘I don’t want to leave my bedroom, this whole thing is so fraught, I’d rather just never talk to a girl, ever’. And that was a very common response.”

After extensive research, Whippman concludes that boys are in dire need of one thing: friendship. She says encouraging friendships and relationships, where boys can be open and vulnerable, is key, but that historically we socialise this out of them from a young age.

Whereas girls are offered “friendship and relationship narratives” – in books and in toys, boys “are socialised to think they need to be unique and special.”

NB this is only an extract - not the whole article which is at https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/parents-get-wrong-raising-boys-3227687

Can aslo be read in full at https://archive.ph/x8BhP

Not read the artice.

But as an answer to the question: I think in an effort to avoid the most negative influences (which is how many of them learn gender in the first place) of social media is to teach kids media literacy and critical thinking skills.

I think you are well on your way if your kids learn early on to question what they know and how and where they learned it.

I think encouraging them to meet up with friends out of the house, in real life, rather than just playing games with their friends online helps. I don't have anything against gaming- but it isn't a substitute for also meeting your friends in real life.

It is worse for boys than girls since girls seem to meet up with their peer group in person more - even if it's shopping, getting fake tan etc. Boys are much more likely to game online which seems to require them all to be in their separate houses.

It isn't just the conversation about toxic masculinity that's the problem. The conversation about the conversation about toxic masculinity is if anything even worse. Lots of male podcasters, you tubers actively pushing the narrative that young men are hated so much it's better to avoid the wide world (and evil femoids) altogether. Maybe that's partly a reaction, but it's also because it's actively in their interestto keep their audience online. It gets very crabs in a bucket.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the pandemic, when everyone was discouraged from socialising, made things much worse. So yeah, the solution is making them touch grass/see their friends in person.

I appreciate that external influences can be very problematic for teenage boys, but my advice for any woman is to choose the right man as a partner in the first place.

Nice decent men tend to have similar sons, provided they are properly involved in their lives.

Sadly this is not my experience. My son used to be very sceptical (to a fault perhaps!) and greatly valued critical thinking. He has still apparently fallen for the trans narrative hook line and sinker. But he has a very supportive partner who seems to be in charge of how he navigates "gender".

For starters, dont worship them and turn them into little gods as so many cultures do.
Its because the mothers are so disempowered that birthing a son gives her reflected glory.
Its profoundly fecked up.

Most of all teach them to accept NO.
And absolutely dont teach them that 'boys will be boys'

Dont raise your daughters to be skivvies or either sex that 'they deserve it all' Neither sex should be borought up by platitudes copy and pasted from New Age corporate manipulations.

There's an excellent book called Lads about respect & consent,which tries to address some of the issues they can face and does it with humour and self depreciation. Written by a man too.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lads-Respect-Consent-Create-Positive/dp/1526365022/ref=tmmpappswatch0??encoding=UTF8&dibtag=se&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.osfL05LBBzTHeLNHs-b-WIMglVV9dQiVKPVx7RXFwueTcQ1pOS2PKb6HKews7tMbxg3Z4vhDpsWvtMcPnRo2lv0DxUjqlycPfEPNyvxbwSezzQosLr08cIViYDyDuxosopUVcdWF7NS0nCy9CbinDksG5tq2PSIyZTQoaaG4CbjH-pZTQryL7TWJWBFRRxygK9IjWciOHsAnT-tMeDJfe2-YSMZvd2WTEqbjAd_oTo.JVK8oUvX2MG9ozhRhYEDYBcLBelXLeKDBWaSLRXHby0&qid=1723832366&sr=8-1

I actually think talking about what a grown man should be is helpful. Responsible, dutiful, thoughtful (as in thinks, not buys people flowers) takes ownership for their own words and actions, someone other people respect for being honest, upstanding and reliable. These are the same words I use to raise my DD, I would have said the same to a son.

I actually think the people who are most at peace are the ones who are happy to take actual responsibility for themselves. DH is one of the most emotionally resilient people I know. I’ve never heard him say “it’s not fair” or blame someone else when he’s failed. I think engaging in any kind of victim mindset is when people become really vulnerable. Most extremists paint themselves as victims of something.

I just keep talking to my DS. Understanding the rubbish he hears on the internet, and breaking it down so I can prove it's nonsense.

I make sure he gets out and interacts with his mates face to face. I encourage him into new activities and sports. He interacts with his female cousins, a sort of safe space of female company, where anything he says is processed with affection.

And I drag him along to village events which he grumbles about, and always ends up 'mooching' with other local teenagers. Every event from the local comedy club to karate class is an opportunity to hone social skills.

I respect and listen to his opinions. He knows I love and value him, and have his back. If something upsets him, he shares that fact. I think we are doing ok so far, a work in progress.

Whatever mothers and fathers are doing now, its not working is it, in the slightest.
I suspect laziness and indulgence

I thought I had a really good relationship with my son, but at the moment we are not in a good place. I hope I am a nice decent man, and some people have said so, and I thought I was properly involved in his life and had let go appropriately as he matured. I have no doubt that I have made mistakes and I feel that I have failed to prepare him adequately for a world that I was barely aware of. If only I had known about queer theory and what gender identity ideology really teaches, maybe I could have done better. But most of us don't know what the next problematic societal movement is going to be.

Certainly in our family, the causes are more complex than a couple of posts in this thread have suggested, and we have been shocked at how little effect our values have had since our son embraced this. Very quickly we have become bad people who are toxic and wrong, as his worldview has changed radically.

I am sorry to hear that. I guess what you've done helped, but there is never a guarantee. I am sure your son will come around eventually.

Good enough parenting, if they are lucky enough to have good secure attachments then that will vastly help their attitude and well-being. Consider their particular needs strengths and talents but also that a lot of boys and men need a lot of affection and closeness, love to help regulate emotions, clear guidance, leaders, healthy routes to channel natural hormonal aggression and sex drives, strong ego and competition needs. They need to know they are not toxic and wrong but able and valued whether for being strong protectors, caring sons, partners and fathers or anything else that is their unique way of being. They need values and belonging and community. Boundaries and room to grow. All of this is generalisation of course, but attuned authoritative confident parenting imo.

Fumbling along here - mine is a highly intelligent autistic which adds another layer of complexity. My only real strategy is to go for long rambles with him and talk (or rather listen) and encourage a lot of healthy debate. “I wonder if -“ is a great phrase for introducing an alternative point of view.

I also point out qualities like honour, integrity in real life and fictional examples. I avoid putting people on pedestals (these last few decades all the heroes have fallen) so I just notice instances rather than people .

We have 2 DSs well into their twenties, so missed the toxic masculinity/social media era. Teaching critical thinking was still important, though e.g. in relation to branding and marketing and not being afraid to be countercultural when it was the right thing to do.

Real life friends are absolutely key, as PPs have said, whether through sport or other activities - this also has the benefit of getting them to mix with people of different ages and backgrounds. One PP mentioned mentioned taking her DS to village events. We did that and took them to other similar things. This really does help build social confidence and develop the ability to talk to anyone (and is much cheaper than paying for a private education).

Co-educational schools helped as well. Do boys not talk to girls as friends these days at school? It would seem not.

It's also been useful that our two, despite having a few years between them, have always been best friends and talk to each other (even if not always to us) when they are worried, depressed or similar. The other one will have a quiet word with us if he thinks we can do anything helpful.

Interestingly, I think men in their late twenties/early thirties are actually the most likely to be talking about (complaining of) the "crisis of masculinity". That is certainly the age of the majority of public figures talking about this. If your own sons managed to bypass that issue then that is a testament to your parenting (and to them too).

The best thing parents can do is think long and hard before sleeping with each other which would make good parents

Children learn behaviour from home before anywhere else

Ours is still a teen but seems to be doing OK. I think it definitely helps that his activities and his sport have mainly been in mixed groups!

My lovely older son (16) is doing really well. He seems immune to a lot of crazier things - his social justice anger is reserved for far-right wing politicians/thugs, Trump, and climate catastrophe. He's a great critical thinker and I think this is only down to nurture so far - it goes with his very analytic and intelligent personality. (oh god I'm such a pathetic cliche parent - naturally he's PERFECT ) I did bring him up from an early age with a background of healthy equity and feminism and DH is certainly sound in that respect too. DH and I share household tasks and (mostly) don't shout at one another. He looks up to DH (academic in a reasonably relevant field to this current collection of issues) and we all three of us have great debates and conversations. I think the really important thing is to keep talking, and not shouting - but most normal teenagers go through a naturally grumpy stage where they're just suspicious of anything their parents say or believe. I don't know how we skipped that with this one - perhaps it's still to come!

He's definitely a very 'young' 16 and thus far, not interested by 'cool' stuff that a few of his peers are into (his is a very geeky and outlying peer group) so he's not really immersed in a toxic online environment. Because he has a rather lofty view of some other peers at school whom he views as thugs because of the way they handle themselves, what they say etc, he can see how devastatingly toxic the whole Andrew Tate movement is, and reserves some of his most withering contempt for it. (He says it's extremely pervasive, even at his school which allegedly is really hot on sexism and promotes 'modern masculinity'.) We talk about porn and how damaging to a burgeoning sexuality it can be, and to the best of my knowledge he's not yet come across any, which if true must make him fairly unusual! He talks to me a lot and I think he'd actually tell me.

DS is now such a stickler for bias and sniffing out sexism that he has a go at me if I casually say something is a bit 'girly' (take my FWR card away!). We think that he has some autistic traits (his younger brother is severely autistic) and in fact I think that tendency towards black and white, and literalism, actually means he has absolutely no truck with magical thinking or daft, nebulous ideas about being 'in the wrong body' or having a 'gendered soul' (he's also deeply scathing about religion, to the extent that I have to get him to rein it in a bit to avoid causing offence). It's interesting, because as we know, autism in the mix can sometimes be seen in teenagers who embrace this hook, line and sinker. It might be more of a thing with girls/young women who are autistic?

I worry about him though (we all worry about our kids). He wants to do a science subject at university. I do worry about the very totalitarian climate at universities (I mean imposed by the students). As it is, he has to bite his tongue - he's a lot better at doing that than I am - whenever gender-related topics come up in his friendship group, because a lot of them HAVE gone all in for gender ideology. It makes him unhappy and wary. At university I really do worry he'll find the same sort of thing, only +++. He wants to go to Bristol ...

Install an internal locus of control. Works for girls and boys. Basically, letting them know that their actions, their hard work, their kindness, compassion, reasoning and actions matter.

When they spill a drink or hurt someone, "how can we make this situation better?". No forced apologies, just genuinely trying to fix things. Look for their power in any situation they are struggling with. Look for their ability to work at things. When they fail or succeed, "do you think you worked hard and tried?" If the answer is "yes" the result doesn't matter, you ask if they are proud of their hard work. You 'notice' their work and trying at every turn, not the result. You look at their art and don't say, "what an amazing picture, you are so talented" you say, "you've worked hard at drawing faces, I can see the difference from your last piece".

This does two things; increases empathy, and reduces the very toxic 'why is the world not making me happy' narrative that comes from Andrew Tate. A boy can't get a girlfriend and can't get on a football team. What can he do? In the AT/incel world, girls are frigid bitches who should go out with him = anger. And the team are Chads and he should he accommodated = anger. In the world of internal locus of control, he could work harder, practise, make more female friends and become a more rounded person, think about how he talks to girls and which girls he considers as a girlfriend. He believes he has power to make changes to make his life better.

Get them outdoors and active. Let them run, exercise and play sports.
Talk to them and discuss issues. Have good role models and get them away from gadgets and gaming being their priority.
Teach them that they have other priorities like school work and learning, doing some chores, being active and healthy and socialising with their family and friends. Those should be fulfilled first, then gaming when there's not much to do.
But also teach them why those things should be prioritised and how they'll impact them and their outcomes.