Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Glorious thread on twatter. Much laughter to be had. - How quick l!beral woman go from “tr&ns allies” to “I’M NOT TR&NS I’M A REAL WOMAN”

43 replies

lechiffre55 · 15/08/2024 13:35

TWAW type gets really offended when others pretend she might be trans. She really can't see the bigger picture. Goes on far longer than it should.

x.com/HazelAppleyard_/status/1823081062848995440

OP posts:
OldMutantDecrepitTurtle · 15/08/2024 16:52

"Cis Woman = Woman"
"TW = Woman"

leads to:
"Cis Woman = TW" and vice versa.


I'm not sure this is true.

Golden Retriever = dog
XL Bully = dog

It doesn't follow that
Golden Retriever = XL Bully

The argument would be that that they are both subsets of a category.
Obviously TW aren't women though.

ConstructionTime · 15/08/2024 16:58

@OldMutantDecrepitTurtle

That's what I was hinting at:
the saying that TWAW - I am looking at the word "are".
Wouldn't it be more correct for this line of thought to claim "TW can become women"?
So far the wording in many debates is that both groups are equally the same, which leads to the same legal rights and the problems that are discussed on this forum.

and "Women = Non-Men" and "Cis- and TW are both a subset of women" can't both be true at the same time.

The aspects I pointed out are also that which have the example persons on twiX so enraged.

theDudesmummy · 15/08/2024 17:19

Oh wow. "You thought I was a MAN?". That is just excellent.

Grammarnut · 15/08/2024 17:22

OldMutantDecrepitTurtle · 15/08/2024 15:21

That's hysterical.

dapsnotplimsolls · 15/08/2024 18:19

I might have to start using 'poor diluted fool'.

Omlettes · 15/08/2024 20:03

OldMutantDecrepitTurtle · 15/08/2024 15:21

Funny.
But his gotcha is that of a frat guy arsehole nonetheless.

Omlettes · 15/08/2024 20:12

The most notable thing apart from the cringe factor is she cannot tell she is being teased or the piss taken out of her. And not particularly subtly either.
Quick she aint.
And the irony is sailing over her head like a lead balloon
Is she from across the pond perchance?

NearlySeptember · 15/08/2024 20:26

theDudesmummy · 15/08/2024 17:19

Oh wow. "You thought I was a MAN?". That is just excellent.

I was just coming to post that!

She was so angry and defensive at being labelled trans.

Just shows the ridiculousness of TWAW!

ConstructionTime · 15/08/2024 20:27

theDudesmummy · 15/08/2024 17:19

Oh wow. "You thought I was a MAN?". That is just excellent.

What's the problem; there's no difference, right? (/sarcasm)

yetanotherusernameAgain · 15/08/2024 21:28

@OldMutantDecrepitTurtle - The dog analogy only works if people believe TW and non-trans-women are different to each other but are both subsets of Women.

The TA argument has been that there's no difference between TW and non-trans-women - they are both Women and there are no sub sets. (Logically they must be different by the fact that TW transition and non-trans-women don't.)

OldMutantDecrepitTurtle · 16/08/2024 06:39

The TA argument has been that there's no difference between TW and non-trans-women - they are both Women and there are no sub sets.

They are largely the ones who use the trans and cis to distinguish.

OldMutantDecrepitTurtle · 16/08/2024 06:47

Obviously in general the differences they identify will be couched in intellectual dishonesty- for example saying TW were (wrongly) amab, whereas "cis" [sic] women identify with their "gender assigned at birth". But it's still acknowledgement of difference, and obviously, every request for hormones and surgery is a tacit acknowledgement.

MarieDeGournay · 16/08/2024 10:25

Omlettes · 15/08/2024 20:03

Funny.
But his gotcha is that of a frat guy arsehole nonetheless.

I didn't find this so funny - a woman who was born a woman, XX chromosomes and all that, keeps asserting that she was not born a man, and is hacked off that this dude keeps insisting that she was born a man but is now claiming to be a woman.
Even if she believes that 'transwomen are women', she is entitled to assert her own identify - she was born female, she didn't have to transition from being male, etc., - so his constant insistence that she is not what she says she is isn't the ironic gotcha the interviewer thinks it is.
Sorry, just don't like it😑

ConstructionTime · 16/08/2024 13:17

OldMutantDecrepitTurtle · 16/08/2024 06:47

Obviously in general the differences they identify will be couched in intellectual dishonesty- for example saying TW were (wrongly) amab, whereas "cis" [sic] women identify with their "gender assigned at birth". But it's still acknowledgement of difference, and obviously, every request for hormones and surgery is a tacit acknowledgement.

This language of "identify with their gender assigned at birth" and how it is often used sounds so patronizing to me. It's like "you just gave in to your role" but we are the cool rebels who break the mould.

(Obviously that's not all of the reason why they are saying it, but part of it).

It fits with the portraying of "cis" as mainstream and everyman/woman, but "trans" is the rebel who is different. This causes some justification necessity as why you have all that cis-privilege; which is especially grating for people who fought all their life for the breaking of traditional male/females roles and that everyone can combine clothing/style/workplace/housekeeping methods/hobbies and so on as they please.

[Maybe this fits better with the other thread on language]

OldMutantDecrepitTurtle · 16/08/2024 14:23

ConstructionTime · 16/08/2024 13:17

This language of "identify with their gender assigned at birth" and how it is often used sounds so patronizing to me. It's like "you just gave in to your role" but we are the cool rebels who break the mould.

(Obviously that's not all of the reason why they are saying it, but part of it).

It fits with the portraying of "cis" as mainstream and everyman/woman, but "trans" is the rebel who is different. This causes some justification necessity as why you have all that cis-privilege; which is especially grating for people who fought all their life for the breaking of traditional male/females roles and that everyone can combine clothing/style/workplace/housekeeping methods/hobbies and so on as they please.

[Maybe this fits better with the other thread on language]

Agree completely.

SageHoney · 16/08/2024 16:11

I genuinely believed, back in the days when he was all over the talk show circuit debating such luminaries as George Galloway, that Pink News's Benjamin Butterworth was a transman. (And I thought he looked great; just in terms of physical appearance it seemed to be a much more successful transition than when he had transitioned from white to black.) I thought, because Butterworth was constantly talking over trans people and explaining how being trans did not work the way actual practitioners described it, that he likely had transitioned a long time ago (explaining his identifying and promoting himself as a far superior subject matter expert than others who had perhaps transitioned more recently). However, he turned out to be a perfectly ordinary run of the mill 20th century-style non-trans man.

I think that the appearance of very similar non-self-aware and overprivileged hubris combined with ignorance is what is aggravating people in this case. Michelle doesn't just say "I'm not trans" as a statement of fact, which I don't think anyone would oppose. She goes to great lengths to justify and prove that she's not trans but she does so in ways that are, frankly, transphobic and show that she has no clue about the subject. Her comment that she can't be a trans woman because she has a cervix has been thoroughly debunked by the UK Foreign Secretary, just for example. And she clearly spends no time on Reddit - one of the only places on the internet where trans people have both reach and power beyond their tiny demographic - if she thinks that transwomen can't have a vagina and can't menstruate.

And at the same time, she's hypocritically insisting that everyone else is transphobic. And she's insisting that people who have a long history of feminist activism are not feminist, but simply opportunists who care only about hurting individual trans people, and that she herself is an exemplary feminist - even though the logic behind that claim is inherently misogynist. And she's calling random strangers bullies when she herself is visibly bullying, both before and after the "are you trans" question came up. It's classic DARVO.

Comparisons are never exact but: let's say you've been shouting out of the blue, perhaps in progressive empathy with the Scottish Independence movement and the universal human right of self-determination of peoples, that SCOTTISH PEOPLE AREN'T BRITISH!!! And in response, someone assumes that you must be Scottish or you wouldn't be speaking for Scots, most of whom know that we ARE technically British but also realise that it can be a complicated cultural question in some contexts. And most of whom would not like to lose what may be their only existing citizenship unless and until there's a viable alternative.

You then take enormous offense and start ranting and raving that you personally CAN'T be Scottish and everybody else are racist anglophobic xenophobic right-wing bullies who care nothing about anything despite their actual real world records of activism and are totally stupid and craven and beneath contempt for suggesting/assuming that you're Scottish. You then cite as evidence of your non-Scottish status the fact that you have a UK passport, like fish and chips and the King, drive a Jaguar, and can post a picture of yourself in London when you were seven.

The people you're railing against are, reasonably I think, liable to be annoyed. And yes, if you've DARVO'd this group of people on an ongoing basis for eons, some of them are likely to seize the opportunity to demonstrate that you are being unreasonable. Which won't do any good if you're an undiluted idiot. (No shade, Michelle: I also prefer my idiots full strength).

WhereYouLeftIt · 16/08/2024 18:26

MarieDeGournay · 16/08/2024 10:25

I didn't find this so funny - a woman who was born a woman, XX chromosomes and all that, keeps asserting that she was not born a man, and is hacked off that this dude keeps insisting that she was born a man but is now claiming to be a woman.
Even if she believes that 'transwomen are women', she is entitled to assert her own identify - she was born female, she didn't have to transition from being male, etc., - so his constant insistence that she is not what she says she is isn't the ironic gotcha the interviewer thinks it is.
Sorry, just don't like it😑

IIRC, he was in the middle of interviewing two other women when this woman wandered over and inserted herself, may have tried to grab his mike (can't remember the details, it was a while back) - the other two wandered off and he was left with just her. She was the one who essentially demanded that he pay attention to her. If she didn't like how it turned out, that's on her.

WhereYouLeftIt · 16/08/2024 18:38

WhereYouLeftIt · 16/08/2024 18:26

IIRC, he was in the middle of interviewing two other women when this woman wandered over and inserted herself, may have tried to grab his mike (can't remember the details, it was a while back) - the other two wandered off and he was left with just her. She was the one who essentially demanded that he pay attention to her. If she didn't like how it turned out, that's on her.

Here's the full video.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCtT0rQy8jQ

New posts on this thread. Refresh page