Iraqi pose lowering legal marriage for girls to age to 9

[Soubriquet]

Couldn’t see another thread so here

link

WTF is wrong with people? Mainly men who make these sick, abhorrent rules up. A 9 year old girl? What kind of monster would agree to marrying a little girl. More than I care to imagine I assume.

No justifying it at all. As much as we have our problems here, thank fuck we weren’t born somewhere like that. Poor babies and their mothers!

Some societies still 'promise' their toddler girls to another family. Sometimes within their own family.Sometimes for money.

We have a long way to go in the world before women and girls are recognised as individuals rather than someone's chattel.
FGM, child marriage, perinatal death - mother and/ or child, fistula, often no education etc etc. The list is too depressing to carry on.
The common theme is females being owned, so I'm horrified yet not very surprised at this proposal.

What happens to the levels of international abuse and traffic ? When the world will stop this too, because the men who finance it are not only Arabs, but white western men too.

If their 9 yr old girl bride has 5ard there'll be trouble,.

And not helped when trying to campaign that all young girls are vulnerable to exploitative men, when a judicial system that is meant to treat all equally says that a 12 year old who was raped and became pregnant, that there was no crime because it was part of "their culture".

ie not giving equality or caring enough for the girl that judges would demand for their daughters.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5085318-man-who-raped-12-year-old-gipsy-girl-acquitted-because-relationship-common-spain

There are no US states where it is legal to marry at the age of 9. Most states require a person to be 18 or older, but with parental consent (and sometimes judicial consent), people can marry at the age of 16 or 17 - usually with a requirement that there be no more than 2 to 4 years difference in ages between the prospective bride and groom.

This doesn't stop some from marrying young girls to old men in a religious ceremony that doesn't involve a marriage license, but most Americans are horrified by that.

https://www.findlaw.com/family/marriage/state-by-state-marriage-age-of-consent-laws.html

No, I'm not sure where people are getting this. I think there may be some states, even as progressive as California, where there just isn't a legal minimum, but that can't be interpreted as "children can be married off at 9"! The courts are involved and would never approve that, obviously.

There are some statistics on this web site - including a few under 10 marriages that happened in the past 10/15 years.
https://www.unchainedatlast.org/child-marriage-shocking-statistics/

Also by chance, they have a press release about a proposed changed to the law that they think will undo some of the work that has made underage marriage in some states less likely.
https://www.unchainedatlast.org/federal-bill-would-undo-our-work-to-end-child-marriage/

Yes it amazes me that California is one of the outlier states.
'In California, in contrast, opposition to setting a minimum age for marriage has come from more progressive groups, including Planned Parenthood, the American Civil Liberties Union and the Children’s Law Center.'
'These groups have contended that imposing an age requirement for marriage could lead to rollbacks of constitutional or reproductive rights."
'In 2017, the ACLU wrote in a letter of opposition to a California bill banning child marriage that the legislation “unnecessarily and unduly intrudes on the fundamental rights of marriage with sufficient cause,” according to PBS. "
'Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California Spokesperson Jennifer Wonnacott said in a statement to The Hill that the organization “strongly supports protecting youth from abuse of all kinds and safeguarding their rights.”

Safeguard Futures - Ban Child Marriage

Report from IKWRO on the campaign work they have done in releation to child marriage in the UK

https://ikwro.org.uk/safeguard-futures-ban-child-marriage/

Some Iraqis explained that absolute majority are against and it was put forward by Iranians (I see someone already mentioned them).
Afaik it was already rejected by government?

Again...young girls the victims. Will it ever end?

You're right it was previously withdrawn.However, the bill reappeared in a session on August 4 after gaining support from influential Shiite blocs that hold significant sway in the chamber.
So it's now got a serious chance of being passed.

They are worried, afaik, that girls will be coerced into relationships that are not marriage and will go beyond the reach of social services. Also that some pregnant underage girls want to marry and make their child legitimate and making the age of marriage 18 will prevent this
I actually agree with those opposing raising the age of marriage to 18 for both those reasons. In the UK underage marriage and forced marriage take place in particular communities. Making it illegal to marry under 18 will not stop those forced marriages and under age marriages because the families will resort to religious marriage that are not licensed (for US readers marriage in the UK can be civil OR religious but religious marriages are restricted to Christianity and Judaism i.e. you can marry in a Protestant church/chapel, a Catholic church or a synagogue, or in a Registry Office, the marriage is the same and subject to the same rules).
Some girls will still want to marry the father of their child, if they are 16 or 17 (the age of consent is 16) but now they are unable to marry because only those over 18 can marry.
This makes life difficult for a lot of people and doesn't stop forced marriages. The only way to stop forced marriages is to prosecute the entire family doing this. They will not be deterred by 'local' law.

The organisation I linked to upthread has examples of girls getting married in the US as young as 10.

There are five states with no legal lower limit for marriage. Read the link I posted upthread from Unchained At Last.

IdahoGal & CurlyhairedAssassin,

I had no idea, I only found out on this blog and another poster has confirmed it:

"Five states in the US have no lower age limit for marriage.

This organisation campaigns to end child marriage in the US. They have some shocking figures here - 10 and 11 year olds married.

These are outwith the norm; the main problem is 16 and 17 year olds being married when they are legally not able to leave home/divorce.

www.unchainedatlast.org/child-marriage-shocking-statistics/"

If there isn't a legal minimum, it can indeed be interpreted as "children can be married off at 9".

If Iraq worded the law exactly as it is worded in California, would that be acceptable?

"Progressive" California and the other four states need to introduce a legal minimum age in their laws.

And certainly pressure has to be put on Iraq to give up the idea.

From the link you posted:

'Six states (Washington, California, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Michigan, and Mississippi) have no minimum age for marriage'.

This is covered in the 2 articles linked on page 1.

Its stems from trying to reverse the more "progressive" postion of marriage etc., being part of civil law.

This seems to be an attempt by both Sunni and Shia factions to have more rights over this than the state.

The proposed amendment would reverse changes made by the 1959 legislation, which transferred family law authority from religious figures to the state judiciary. The new bill would reintroduce the option for applying religious rules, mainly from Shia and Sunni Islam, but does not address other religious or sectarian communities in Iraq.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com//news/new-updates/iraq-plans-to-lower-the-marriage-age-for-girls-to-nine-herere-the-other-proposed-controversial-changes/articleshow/112399995.cms?

And as it common knowledge, when women's rights are under the control of any religion, they lose them.

It is almost like religion is part of the patriarchal system of the oppression of women.

So it is as much men using religion to justify their domination of women, as religion itself being th problem.

As witnessed by the Bible being used to support the cause of anti abortionists.

And yet, from the same article:

Washington: The age of consent is 18. With judicial approval, a person can marry at 17.

California: The age of consent is 18. Minors under 18 can marry with written parental consent. There is a 30-day wiating period and a meeting with the judge before marriage.

New Mexico: The age of consent is 18. With parental consent, a person can marry at 16. A person under 16 can marry by order of a children's or family division of the district court.

Oklahoma: The age of consent is 18. With parental consent, a person may marry at 16. Minors under 16 may not marry unless authorized by court order.

Michigan: The age of consent is 18. With parental consent, a person can marry at 16.

Mississippi: The age of consent is 21. With parental consent, males can marry at 17, and females can marry at 15.

I guarantee you no court in this land would okay a marriage at 9.

I guarantee you no court in this land would okay a marriage at 9.

I think most of us are aware that in many countries there is often a huge gap between what it said to be the law and what are cultural practices (and I dont just mean religion)

I couldn't make out from the chart posted by the group UnchainedAtLast whether the record of the marriage of a girl of 9 was one accepted by which ever state.

I doubt it.

That is the issue.

The gap between what the law says should and shouldn't happen, and those who think their traditions mean they can ignore it.

As UnchainedAtLast have been campaigning for years I doubt they would risk their reputation by quoting made up facts.

This should not be legal anywhere in the world. It's appalling

I feel sick. Why are some men so horrible. They should be castrated

Having a look at UnchainedAtLast's research methodology:

https://www.unchainedatlast.org/united-states-child-marriage-problem-study-findings-april-2021/#methodology

'Unchained confirmed all outliers in the data – that is, children listed as married before age 12 – by contacting the relevant state.'

Some 96% of the children wed were age 16 or 17, though a few were as young as 10 [5].

10-Year-Olds: 5 (<1%)
11-Year-Olds: 1 (<1%)
12-Year-Olds: 14 (<1%)
13-Year-Olds: 78 (<1%)
14-Year-Olds: 1,223 (<1%)
15-Year-Olds: 8,199 (4%)
16-Year-Olds: 63,956 (29%)
17-Year-Olds: 148,944 (67%)'

More info and references on the link.

OP, sorry, I don't mean to derail. The Iraq law proposals are abhorrent. I'm also horrified that this seems to still happen in the US.