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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New anti-Cass screed

36 replies

Twawddle · 09/08/2024 01:45

I stumbled across this tweet earlier today announcing a new critique of the Cass Review. It's by a couple of gender enthusiast clinicians who aren't best pleased with it:

My colleagues and I have been worried for some time about the way the Cass review has been reified into a kind of sacred text, when it's deeply flawed and infused with ideology. So I wrote a paper on it with Lorna Hobbs.

We are extremely grateful to the people who have inspired our writing, including @GidMK @RottenInDenmark @AlexAshman @Chican3ry @DadTrans and many others. As people involved in the transition from the old GiDs to the new, we're very concerned about the future.

That's why we write- we want a new government to take a new approach. So after a pretty long document, we close with some questions for @wesstreeting and his team. We would also love to work with @TheBMA on their critique of Cass.

Link to paper: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQXUWs7GU9FX02LypDp9YltRfmtRVAAn9L9CIdKuuU2kHqz_z2BBttO3nJD4Wsau5EIHuHiapFCOTQ5/pub

Archive link: https://archive.today/D7Hys

Cass: the good, the bad, the critical

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQXUWs7GU9FX02LypDp9YltRfmtRVAAn9L9CIdKuuU2kHqz_z2BBttO3nJD4Wsau5EIHuHiapFCOTQ5/pub

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 09/08/2024 16:16

OldCrone · Today 09:15

The Cass team do not mention any of the potential harms caused by not offering treatment, of which there are many - the development of permanent secondary sex characteristics that are not congruent with a person’s gender identity (e.g. a deepening voice, facial hair growth, breast tissue growth to name a few) can cause high levels of distress to many gender-diverse youth.

And the Cass Trashing Team make no reference to the very well known, very serious side effects, which puberty blockers cause, even after relatively short, restricted periods of use.

Including mental stultification, irreversible bone density problems, weak joints, depression / mood swings, seizures, cardiovascular and cerebrovascular conditions, including strokes.

I wonder why they don't mention any of that? Is it that they don't know? Or that they don't care, because their agenda is more important to them?

Omlettes · 11/08/2024 06:07

SinnerBoy · 09/08/2024 16:16

OldCrone · Today 09:15

The Cass team do not mention any of the potential harms caused by not offering treatment, of which there are many - the development of permanent secondary sex characteristics that are not congruent with a person’s gender identity (e.g. a deepening voice, facial hair growth, breast tissue growth to name a few) can cause high levels of distress to many gender-diverse youth.

And the Cass Trashing Team make no reference to the very well known, very serious side effects, which puberty blockers cause, even after relatively short, restricted periods of use.

Including mental stultification, irreversible bone density problems, weak joints, depression / mood swings, seizures, cardiovascular and cerebrovascular conditions, including strokes.

I wonder why they don't mention any of that? Is it that they don't know? Or that they don't care, because their agenda is more important to them?

Ooops on wrong thread sorry😳

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 11/08/2024 09:54

OldCrone · 09/08/2024 10:17

When it comes to social transition, vague worries that an early social transition may encourage the child to be trans and therefore have less optimal outcomes, are taken at face value, rather than being interrogated for the obvious (harmful) assumption underlying them that a trans identity is somehow less desirable than a cis identity.

I'm still waiting for one of these gender ideologues to explain why sterilising children and giving them harmful medication which will make them less healthy throughout their lives and impact their sexual function is as desirable as allowing them to grow up to be adults who will probably be able to have their own children and won't have the health problems associated with taking hormone blockers and opposite sex hormones and the possible complications of having surgical procedures to alter the appearance of their genitalia.

Shut up you bigot! You transphobe!

Oh dear, it doesn’t seem to work any more …

Thingybob · 13/08/2024 20:35

This update from Ben Ryan is worth reading.

benryan.substack.com/p/cass-review-author-denounces-as-baseless

The short version is that Dr Cass responded to the accusation that she recommended Abigail Shrier's book by saying it was "wholly untrue" and it was a "cynical attempt to undermine the Review"

Dr Max Davie has now deleted the reference to Irreversible Damage (but still thinks Dr Cass went into the Review with preconceived ideas and bias) and he's taking a Twitter break due to the anxiety this has caused him

OldCrone · 13/08/2024 20:56

Dr Max Davie has now deleted the reference to Irreversible Damage (but still thinks Dr Cass went into the Review with preconceived ideas and bias) and he's taking a Twitter break due to the anxiety this has caused him

I wonder if he's ever considered the effect his comments might have had on Dr Cass? She has already received threats which means it's unsafe for her to travel on public transport, so has he considered that his baseless accusations may have caused her some anxiety?

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 13/08/2024 21:07

OldCrone · 13/08/2024 20:56

Dr Max Davie has now deleted the reference to Irreversible Damage (but still thinks Dr Cass went into the Review with preconceived ideas and bias) and he's taking a Twitter break due to the anxiety this has caused him

I wonder if he's ever considered the effect his comments might have had on Dr Cass? She has already received threats which means it's unsafe for her to travel on public transport, so has he considered that his baseless accusations may have caused her some anxiety?

I consider Davie and Hobbs may be more mindful of England's libel laws (as Ryan suggests) than retrospectively concerned for any potential stochastic terrorism concerns for the impact on Cass and others.

I doubt there will be any professional consequences for this ill-considered attempt to undermine the Cass Review. I wonder what NHS England's Children and Young People’s Gender Dysphoria Research Oversight Board makes of all this.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/implementing-advice-from-the-cass-review/cyp-gender-dysphoria-research-oversight-board/

NHS commissioning » Children and Young People’s Gender Dysphoria Research Oversight Board

Health and high quality care for all, <br />now and for future generations

https://www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/implementing-advice-from-the-cass-review/cyp-gender-dysphoria-research-oversight-board

AthenaBasil · 13/08/2024 21:24

OldCrone · 09/08/2024 10:17

When it comes to social transition, vague worries that an early social transition may encourage the child to be trans and therefore have less optimal outcomes, are taken at face value, rather than being interrogated for the obvious (harmful) assumption underlying them that a trans identity is somehow less desirable than a cis identity.

I'm still waiting for one of these gender ideologues to explain why sterilising children and giving them harmful medication which will make them less healthy throughout their lives and impact their sexual function is as desirable as allowing them to grow up to be adults who will probably be able to have their own children and won't have the health problems associated with taking hormone blockers and opposite sex hormones and the possible complications of having surgical procedures to alter the appearance of their genitalia.

It all ties in with the weird thought process they have. Obviously it’s desirable not to be a medical patient for the rest of your life but they try and twist it to make it sound like saying that means you think they’re lesser people or some such nonsense. I’ve seen it before with these activists on a range of issues where they basically can’t acknowledge that being healthy is preferable.

Brainworm · 13/08/2024 23:46

I'm still waiting for one of these gender ideologues to explain why sterilising children and giving them harmful medication which will make them less healthy throughout their lives and impact their sexual function is as desirable as allowing them to grow up to be adults who will probably be able to have their own children and won't have the health problems associated with taking hormone blockers and opposite sex hormones.....

I worked with a fair few of them over a number of years. They think that notions that everyone should be healthy, fertile and have sexual functioning comes from a place of cis, heteronormative bias. They argue that we privilege these ways of being and fail to recognise that for trans people, these preoccupations are not important and we should honour and respect it.

It is complete guff of course but they get high on the superiority they feel from being ,one of the enlightened ones'.

duc748 · 13/08/2024 23:53

They are loons, and no better than the nutters who want to chop their own legs, or other body parts, off.

OldCrone · 14/08/2024 08:34

Brainworm · 13/08/2024 23:46

I'm still waiting for one of these gender ideologues to explain why sterilising children and giving them harmful medication which will make them less healthy throughout their lives and impact their sexual function is as desirable as allowing them to grow up to be adults who will probably be able to have their own children and won't have the health problems associated with taking hormone blockers and opposite sex hormones.....

I worked with a fair few of them over a number of years. They think that notions that everyone should be healthy, fertile and have sexual functioning comes from a place of cis, heteronormative bias. They argue that we privilege these ways of being and fail to recognise that for trans people, these preoccupations are not important and we should honour and respect it.

It is complete guff of course but they get high on the superiority they feel from being ,one of the enlightened ones'.

Do they ever explain why doctors should be assisting them to be unhealthy, infertile and sexually dysfunctional rather than improving the health and well-being of people who (through no fault of their own) are unhealthy or have problems relating to fertility or sexual function?

Catsmere · 14/08/2024 09:22

I'm always extremely suspicious of the motives of men involved in this permanent, medical infantilisation. John Money comes to mind.

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