Sex and Gender are NOT the fucking same!

[ScaredMyBossMightBeOnMN]

I am aware of an incident at my work where a patient attended for a Bone scan.
Male and female bone density is different, particularly after the menopause, and there is a Male referral form and a Female one.

A patient was referred on the Male referral form with all markers on their health records referring to them as Male. The patient did not volunteer the information that they were born female but did say that they were on testosterone injections.

It was noted after they had gone home that somewhere in the notes it referenced that they were transgender and were contacted to confirm this and asses their pregnancy status. Their scan results then had to recalibrated using female bone density values.

Every indicator of a Patient’s sex in their medical records is actually their ‘gender identity’ not sex, even though it actually states Patient Sex.

It’s bloody madness as blood values are different as well. I feel complicit in this nonsense but am too scared to challenge.

I know the answer to this situation is that the radiographers will be admonished for not being ‘inclusive’ and will have to check the pregnancy status of all male patients in future, as they have previously been advised to do.

The logical solution would be for us to record both sex AND gender of patients.They could be referred to and accommodated, according to their gender identity but receive appropriate clinical care for their sex.

Do you have a Risk Register and regular meetings that would pick this sort of thing up? Surely inclusion isn't any good if you kill/main/injure people that you are trying to include?

Actually, I'm really looking forward to my #BeKind husband being asked if he could be pregnant.

This is madness... I don't know what else to say... It must be SO frustrating when you witness it first hand (in your job, etc)

Yanbu at all.

But updating NHS computer systems to hold two different values of "sex" and "gender" would cost many millions.

I'm in hospital regularly for monitoring an ongoing condition. Every time they print out an "are your details correct" sheet which shows they reckon I have a feminine gender identity. Every time I correct it to say gender: none
sex: female

I don't ecpect they will change any time soon.

I'd be interested to know - if you were doing a scan like this for an individual with XY chromosomes and hormone levels in the male-typical range but a Disorder of Sexual Development whereby their external genetalia at birth looked more typicalof female than male (as per current olympic boxing controversy) such that their birth certificate has always said female, would you calibrate their scan results using the male numbers or the female numbers?

It’ll happen. They ask my 55 yo DH every single time he goes for venosection and xrays/scans (weekly for the former and a couple of times a year for the latter). Over thee last two years, his response has diluted from a snicker, to a silently raised eyebrow, to a hard stare …

We don’t record sex anywhere though we pretend we do.

I’d love to raise hell even anonymously but I know the radiographer will just be beaten over the head with this document which does mention DSDs.

https://www.sor.org/getmedia/82ab6464-552e-456e-83cf-89a0663c90e2/Inclusive-Pregnancy-Status-Guidelines-for-Ionising-Radiation_LLv4

I complained about our Same Sex Accommodation guidelines when they were updated recently as they were appalling written so daren’t raise my head again.

CautiosLurker

Next time your husband is asked if he could be pregnant he should reply:

”I don’t know. I had unprotected sex recently. Is there a test we could do?”. I’d love to know how they’d proceed from there.

I believe that "be kind" and "comply at all costs" trumps all aspects of patient safety these days?

My dad, in his 80s, has been asked! With a wry smile.

I totally get that though.

If I was asked to be complicit, in order to cope I'd probably have to adopt a blanket "ask absolutely everyone" stance.

🤣

This is literally insane. How much time was wasted recalibrating bone images to accomodate this woman’s fiction that she is male? These people are unbelievable. It’s akin to a child deciding they’re a frog and wanting to be assessed as a frog.

i agree, simple resolution to accomodate her would be to have sex and gender stated on the form.

OF COURSE the answer is separate sex and gender ID categories.

Just as the answer to another pressing issue is "run the sex tests yourself, then".

But I'm beginning to realise that inclusion wasn't really the aim. The obfuscation is deliberate, right?

YADNBU.

It's ridiculous. Sex is so important in medicine (and elsewhere). So many appointments are now online/by chat. It would be so easy to make a mistake and, when that happens, they will blame the poor harassed medical professionals.

In 2020 I went to a talk on covid research. It was clear by then that covid affected men and women differently. In reply to a question, the professor said that the department of health does not record birth sex, only gender.
So basically any health research involving an issue that is different between men and women, and uses NHS data, is inaccurate.

As you say OP, male and female reference values for blood tests are different, sometimes radically different. Yet doctors allow the NHS to use self-identified gender instead of a sex marker. This would definitely affect treatment in some cases. I imagine they get round it, in relevant cases (because whatever they say, they can see what's in front of them) by using the question "is your gender identity the same as gender assigned at birth".

It's utterly dishonest, and leads to the kind of time wasting nonsense that you have described.

Family member who is a doctor describes male patients, being asked if they may be pregnant, being confused, upset, angry and disturbed.

But that's fine, I guess, so long as we're 'inclusive'.

NHS records already have a field to record gender ID, plus one to record sex, as I understand it.

But they choose to only record the former, for some reason.

I've also recently read that if you 'change gender' your entire medical record is wiped and a new, blank record created.

https://www.redhousesurgery.nhs.uk/patient-information/name-and-or-gender-changes-on-your-medical-record/

'You can request a new medical record in your preferred gender identity; NHS will then close your current medical record and issue you with a new NHS number, and a new medical record.
Your new medical record will be completely blank, with none of your previous medical history, COVID vaccinations, medication etc. saved onto it. '

Perhaps a couple of minutes explaining why this question has to be asked might open a few male eyes to NHS genderist idiocy.

As well as calming down confused, upset, angry and disturbed reactions

A win-win, I would say

Is there really a need to amend NHS systems to record both sex and gender? I'm sure I read somewhere that sex is inherent in the NHS number with
females having an even number and males having an odd number (or vice versa). If that's the case, then the sex/gender field can be used for gender identity and sex can be determined by noting the NHS number. The change required is just to stop giving people a completely new health record when they transition.

😂
Brilliant!

Could you ask them why I haven't been called for my prostate exam yet?

This sounds like a problem for the person whose medical record is incorrect. Not a problem for the rest of us. In which case I’m unsure why we should care? They’re only causing a problem for themselves.

I get what you're saying, Octavon, but it's the HCPs who will be in trouble if something goes wrong.

Not to mention how the HCPs will feel if there is some sort of medical disaster involving their patient.

HCPs could be under or over prescribing unknowingly. I doubt any of them want to do that.

They should only ask about sex. "Gender identity" is irrelevent.