Page 2 | Crowdjustice and Mumsnet 😁

BridasShieldWall · 05/08/2024 18:16

ATowerOfGiraffes · 05/08/2024 17:55

“People’s generosity isn’t pure altruism,”
Agreed - we also get to watch/track the live streams of madness unfold

I support these cases for a number of reasons, to support the women directly involved but also those indirectly (which is most of us) as the findings generally support women’s rights.

I view it a bit like a Netflix subscription as I get to see the magnificent Ben Cooper in cross examination. Start to remember all his killer lines….

Boiledbeetle · 05/08/2024 18:22

GeorgeOrwellsTurningGrave · 05/08/2024 18:15

Mumsnetters: course correcting one 🥕 at a time

That one carrot after midnight, if watered correctly, turns into Super Carrot! (AKA Ben or Naomi usually)

Christinapple · 05/08/2024 18:43

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 05/08/2024 13:51

A lot of employers in GC cases are taxpayer funded so offline I refer to my gardening as "paying my GC tax". If these employers were doing anti-discrimination properly we wouldn't have to pay again to get these cases dragged to court and dealt with fairly for women.

And in case there is any doubt Allison Bailey significantly won her discrimination case against her own employer though not the part of the case (and it was only part) against Stonewall. It is true that her second case (appeal) against Stonewall failed. The first case was very much worthwhile for what it revealed about Stonewall. As well as clarifying the law, these legal cases allow claimants to present their GC view in public without immediately being shut down, and require the defendants to present their counter arguments in all their (ahem) glory. It's been worth a million or two to end #nodebate.

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/about-us/news/stonewall-statement-outcome-allison-bailey-case

Stonewall were found to have not discriminated against AB or caused anyone else to discriminate against her, just to clarify. There's a thread about it but to summarise the £20k or so AB received from her employer Garden Chambers was about some tweet they posted, nothing to do with Stonewall (and if GC hadn't made that tweet AB wouldn't even have had that £20k). If anyone thinks spending £1M of their own and others' money to get £20k is worthwhile then perhaps business isn't for them.

It also shows just how gender critical the mainstream media is in Britain. The first case a tonne of tabloids were milking the £20k Garden Chambers payout for all they could (at least one tabloid falsely stated she "won" against Stonewall which they had to make a retraction for, and Julie Bindle wrote an article about Bailey "crushing" Stonewall and "ending its rainbow reign" [rolls eyes]). The 2nd/appeal case which was against Stonewall only, where AB simply lost outright, the major tabloids are somewhat very quiet about, only a few lesser known websites are posting about it.

"The first case was very much worthwhile for what it revealed about Stonewall. "

Well this is debateable, it would appear to show Stonewall aren't as bad as AB or anyone else with similar gender critical beliefs would claim, and also there is nothing discriminatory about what Stonewall are doing or the program they have that orgs can sign up for.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/08/2024 18:47

There's a thread about it but to summarise the £20k or so AB received from her employer Garden Chambers was about some tweet they posted, nothing to do with Stonewall (and if GC hadn't made that tweet AB wouldn't even have had that £20k). If anyone thinks spending £1M of their own and others' money to get £20k is worthwhile then perhaps business isn't for them.

She got more than £20k, at a later hearing they had to pay a small amount of her costs. And the detriments upheld were a) the tweet they posted and b) the outcome of the investigation into her due to the Stonewall complaint. So it was in fact still to do with Stonewall.

GeorgeOrwellsTurningGrave · 05/08/2024 18:48

Boiledbeetle · 05/08/2024 18:22

That one carrot after midnight, if watered correctly, turns into Super Carrot! (AKA Ben or Naomi usually)

Show quote history

Gah! That can't be unseen!

RantyMcRanterton · 05/08/2024 18:50

I KNEW you'd have a carroty gif that would be perfect, BB 😍

Christinapple · 05/08/2024 18:52

TWETMIRF · 05/08/2024 16:20

I think the money I donated towards Allison Bailey was well worth it to show that if you follow Stonewall's interpretation of the law rather than the actual law, they walk away scot free and leave you in the shit. Who would pay for advice from somewhere like that?

If you follow Stonewall's interpretation of the law, you haven't broken any laws and you will win if anyone tries to sue you. That would appear to be the interpretation of this I presume? The £20k GC's had to pay was their fault and their fault only.

Therefore it is in employers' best interest to follow Stonewall's interp. of the law and to avoid making the silly mistake GC's made which meant they had to give a £20k payout.

Thanks to everyone who donated to AB to help clarify this all.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/08/2024 18:55

If you follow Stonewall's interpretation of the law, you haven't broken any laws and you will win if anyone tries to sue you. That would appear to be the interpretation of this I presume? The £20k GC's had to pay was their fault and their fault only.

In what way do you think Stonewall's "interpretation of the law" in the workplace when it comes to gender critical beliefs differs from the one GCC used, which got them into hot water when responding to Stonewall's own complaint?

Omlettes · 05/08/2024 19:00

lcakethereforeIam · 05/08/2024 11:18

This is the 3rd time I've tried to create this thread. So apologies if it's a glitch and they suddenly all show up.

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/08/05/jk-rowling-bankrolls-legal-fight-workplace-gender-police/

https://archive.ph/1Y0Ll help you over the garden wall

The headline imo is a bit clickbaity misleading but, hopefully, it'll help some non-gardeners find the allotments.

Tbh that makes me nervous that that will spark a crackdown, seems wiser not to draw attention to it, but hey they gotta get clicks

Christinapple · 05/08/2024 19:01

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/08/2024 18:55

If you follow Stonewall's interpretation of the law, you haven't broken any laws and you will win if anyone tries to sue you. That would appear to be the interpretation of this I presume? The £20k GC's had to pay was their fault and their fault only.

In what way do you think Stonewall's "interpretation of the law" in the workplace when it comes to gender critical beliefs differs from the one GCC used, which got them into hot water when responding to Stonewall's own complaint?

It's made very clear Stonewall were found to have nothing to do with what Garden Chambers did that resulted in the payout they had to make. GC's are responsible for their own actions here.

You can read the statement Stonewall made in the link above.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/08/2024 19:02

You clearly have no real understanding of what I'm saying.

NitroNine · 05/08/2024 19:02

This thread is going to confuse all the poor parents searching the site for tips on how to persuade their children to eat more vegetables… (spinach risotto: doesn’t taste of spinach, but is full of spinachy goodness… good luck)

Is Super Carrot related to either Captain Carrot of the Ankh Morpork City Watch or indeed Bananaman? Or indeed both?! (I do love the interrobang: how can a piece of punctuation be so expressive? Yet somehow it is.)

Iamiams · 05/08/2024 19:03

If you pay for advice but the onus is all on you when it goes wrong, you are less likely to pay for that advice in future. In fact the advice is worse than useless.

Stonewall lost either way. And gay people lost a charity that used to support them.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/08/2024 19:06

It's made very clear Stonewall were found to have nothing to do with what Garden Chambers did that resulted in the payout they had to make.

So again, how would Stonewall's advice on what to do in this situation, to all the saps companies who pay them for guidance on how to achieve LGBT "inclusion" in their workplace, differ from what GCC actually did?

Topofthemountain · 05/08/2024 19:09

The opposite of donating to GC causes is donating to the GLP.

I hope CA is also chastising all their donors too.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/08/2024 19:15

I know, look how much money they've pissed up the wall.

Snowypeaks · 05/08/2024 19:50

They have a terrible win/loss record.

ChaChaChooey · 05/08/2024 20:02

Christinapple · 05/08/2024 13:20

Not all cases result in a win though, and sometimes the person being donated and the money suddenly disappears off the face of the internet and Earth.

Allison Bailey lost twice against Stonewall, the court costs in total were an estimation of £1 which includes a significant amount of donation money.

Then the case of Marion Millar which began in 2021 I think. She received a lot in donations, at least tens of thousands are estimated. The donations were for a court case which to this day hasn't happened, and her defence was an MSP who wasn't charging anything. Marion also then shut down her twitter account she was using to communicate with the public about her case. So, dare one ask what became of everyone's money who donated to her?

From what I saw at the time all MM's crowdfunding attempts on various websites were eventually shut down for breaking the terms of service, I recall one of them saying they would donate to an LGBT-rights charity in response after finding out the context. That means some of the money that was donated to MM ended up going to a LGBT charity.

"Graham Linehan, co-writer of Father Ted, is caught up in a separate gender-critical discrimination case"

The article is being rather secretive about what's happening with GL. He is currently being sued by a homosexual man for libel, so far the judge has rejected GL's claims that he was just stating an opinion. I have a link if anyone's interested.

This bit might help you make sense of why we donate without needing anything back,

“People’s generosity isn’t pure altruism,” she says. “It’s a result of collective pent-up resentment that a large number of people have around these issues.

misogynyisbigotry · 05/08/2024 20:03

Adult humans can spend their money however they want. And women are human. If this makes you - by which I mean anyone posting here - whack the keyboard in frustration, I predict you're going to be very, very frustrated for a very long time.

Electricbream · 05/08/2024 20:04

Iamiams · 05/08/2024 19:03

If you pay for advice but the onus is all on you when it goes wrong, you are less likely to pay for that advice in future. In fact the advice is worse than useless.

Stonewall lost either way. And gay people lost a charity that used to support them.

Stonewall won. Twice.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/08/2024 20:06

Like LGB Alliance won against Mermaids, right, @Electricbream?

ChaChaChooey · 05/08/2024 20:06

Electricbream · 05/08/2024 20:04

Stonewall won. Twice.

Show quote history

They absolutely shat the bed on their business model.

Especially with all the emotional support animals. Made themselves into a proper laughing stock.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/08/2024 20:06

At least Stonewall had the sense to withdraw from that car crash of a case.

ChaChaChooey · 05/08/2024 20:07

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/08/2024 20:06

Like LGB Alliance won against Mermaids, right, @Electricbream?

That reminds me, what the fuck IS happening with the Charities Commission investigation?

Electricbream · 05/08/2024 20:07

Christinapple · 05/08/2024 13:20

Not all cases result in a win though, and sometimes the person being donated and the money suddenly disappears off the face of the internet and Earth.

Allison Bailey lost twice against Stonewall, the court costs in total were an estimation of £1 which includes a significant amount of donation money.

Then the case of Marion Millar which began in 2021 I think. She received a lot in donations, at least tens of thousands are estimated. The donations were for a court case which to this day hasn't happened, and her defence was an MSP who wasn't charging anything. Marion also then shut down her twitter account she was using to communicate with the public about her case. So, dare one ask what became of everyone's money who donated to her?

From what I saw at the time all MM's crowdfunding attempts on various websites were eventually shut down for breaking the terms of service, I recall one of them saying they would donate to an LGBT-rights charity in response after finding out the context. That means some of the money that was donated to MM ended up going to a LGBT charity.

"Graham Linehan, co-writer of Father Ted, is caught up in a separate gender-critical discrimination case"

The article is being rather secretive about what's happening with GL. He is currently being sued by a homosexual man for libel, so far the judge has rejected GL's claims that he was just stating an opinion. I have a link if anyone's interested.

When discussing Marion Millar's crowdfunder be aware that she has been arrested and charged with fraud offences.

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/transgender-law-reform-critic-marion-millar-arrested-over-alleged-fraud-offences

Transgender law reform critic arrested over alleged fraud offences

Marion Millar became a high-profile figure in Scotland as a leading critic of transgender law reform.

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/transgender-law-reform-critic-marion-millar-arrested-over-alleged-fraud-offences