Can a XX woman go through male puberty?

[DenmarkStreet]

The Facebook algorithms decided that I was a good object for an article on the Imane Khelif discussion which ended with the statement that some XX women go through male puberty. Or as it was described "the testosterone shower" which very much seem to suggest something quite brief. Is this even possible or just made up?

I’ve just been readying about Swyer syndrome, which is interesting.

so xy chromosome but female phenotype
functional female sex organs but no puberty of either sex
often tall
No ovaries but gonadal streaks.
can take hrt to induce female puberty
can carry a pregnancy with egg donation
ibe read some conflicting stuff about testosterone levels but think the amount of testosterone depends on how much tissue is in the gonadal streaks, so could be normal for a female or slightly higher.
medically classed as female from what I’m reading

so the Y chromosome won’t always give a male puberty.

as far as I know the boxers medical details haven’t been released and I guess they have a right to privacy.

The boxers have XY chromosomes.

I don't think they do have a right to privacy over this, actually.

They chose to compete on the world stage, knowing it would be controversial.

The women fighting them deserve the right to informed consent (now that we have lost the common sense assumption that there would be no males in the female category).

Edit for typos

@Blisterly I think it's pretty obvious?

Genes can translocate all over the place - pesky buggers - so yes it is possible.

Astonishingly rare though, and irrelevant here anyway.

Correct. It’s not relevant to female sports. Just answering the OP’s question.

I think we have to be careful here. Although DSD is now the preferred medical term, many of the people who have these conditions still prefer the term intersex and describe themselves as such. They also may use the term I/VSC (intersex/variations of sexual characteristics). For example one of the main support organisations for individuals in the U.K. is called U.K. Intersex Association.

Congenital reproductive disorders is a term that is gaining popularity. We also need to be careful as the term ‘intersex’ has been hijacked by QWERTY activists with many self identifying as being intersex. You just need to look on TikTok to see the number of activists making up totally fictitious conditions or claiming conditions they patently do not have. These individuals are taking over many of the support organisations.

It's interesting to see how many men who start to identify as women later in life claim to be intersex. And yet the gender clinics stopped testing for DSDs years ago because they found no correlation between DSDs and gender confusion.

It's almost like some men get off on identifying as intersex.

Jessica Yaniv springs to mind.

@DenmarkStreet

In answer to your question, no. A woman/girl cannot go through male puberty.

Collins online dictionary defines puberty as:
the period at the beginning of adolescence when the sex glands become functional and the secondary sexual characteristics emerge.

She's female so she doesn't have male sex glands anyway.

Secondary sexual characteristics are defined as:
any of various features distinguishing individuals of different sex but not directly concerned in reproduction.

If she develops certain medical conditions like PCOS, she may grow more facial hair than other women because her body will start to produce more testosterone than is normal for females.

Where the source for the xy chromosomes in the boxer.m? Been having this chat with my DH and couldn’t find definitive proof of this at all.

Where the source for the xy chromosomes in the boxer.m? Been having this chat with my DH and couldn’t find definitive proof of this at all.

The details have started leaking out to the media: www.3wiresports.com/articles/2024/8/3/0d4ucn50bmvbndhhqjohaneccoqueq

I agree with the pp who said this is actually everyone's business, otherwise how are opponents meant to give informed consent to the match?

Me too, plenty of snake hipped women around!

Thank you.

If she develops certain medical conditions like PCOS, she may grow more facial hair than other women because her body will start to produce more testosterone than is normal for females.

Women with PCOS do not have anywhere near male levels of testosterone.

I didn't say that, did I?
her body will start to produce more testosterone than is normal for females.

"Higher than normal" isn't male levels.

Edited for clarity

Have you seen this brilliant and hugely informative thread?
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5133426-the-ioc-we-dont-want-a-return-to-the-bad-old-days-of-sex-testing

In a word: No.

In more words: The hormonal cascade that leads to the development of testes and the androgen sensitivity factor that makes cells respond much more to testosterone are both some of the (very few) genes on the Y chromosome. Without a Y, not enough testosterone made to produce and sustain male puberty.

The adrenal glands produce some testosterone, and disorders can lead to overproduction (eg Cushing's Syndrome), but

1. not on the TIMING, duration, and scale needed for male puberty

and

2. the cells throughout the body don't have the androgen sensitivity to respond to the testosterone in a way that produces male puberty.

@quixote9 You should read the full thread as this has been addressed. Individuals with de La Chapelle syndrome are 46,XX but with male phenotype, usually normal male genitalia and have undergone male-type puberty. The condition is often only identified when a couple are investigated for fertility problems.

It’s not relevant to sport of course.

Women with DSDs are unlikely to make it far in competitive sports. The health implications aren’t great, and of course reduces your competitiveness.
Men with some DSDs can be pretty healthy, even if not up to the standard of elite male athletes. Compared to female athletes though, men with certain DSDs are extremely competitive.

Males with DSDs are over represented in women's sports. I think that says it all really. Level the playing field = give them their own category

Ask a farmer how many sexes of cow or sheep or chicken or goat there are

Mammalian biology is pretty binary

This isn’t a thread about multiple sexes or genders. It’s about DSDs, which occur in all mammals (don’t know about birds but as birds don’t have X or Y chromosomes it’s not really relevant).

Oh give over. We're talking about whether it's fair for males with DSDs (or females who go through male puberty if there is such a thing as per OP's question) to compete in elite female sport, not whether they should be allowed to exist.

I've never had a chromosome test. So I might be a man then. I always thought I was a woman.

Does he list those actual cases because I doubt they exist.