No live footage of Lin Yu-ting vs Sitora Turdibekova??

[AmandaHoldensLips]

Am I missing something or is there no live coverage or footage to be seen anywhere of the Lin Yu-ting vs Sitora Turdibekova boxing fiasco today?

Lin Yu-ting won (unsurprisingly) and it's almost like some kind of clean-up operation going on. Not been able to see the fight anywhere.

Did anybody manage to see it or have a link?

Can anyone tell me whether these DSD boxers shave their faces, and have their voices broken? I understand they possess undecended testes and have no overies. I presume therefore they do not menstruate? But do they grow facial hair and have a broken voice? If so that surely is a good indicator that they are not female? (Other than the obvious factor of having XY)

@Alphavilla there is a huge amount of information about various DSDs available online if you're interested in reading more about specific ones.

Neither of these two boxers have said what/if they have a DSD and if so, what it is. They shouldn't be in a position where people are speculating if they shave or have deep voices, the IOC and international sports federations should have organised clear rules for fairness and consistency. Then it would not come down to discussions about specific individuals like this.

This.

Transparency, fairness, testing for all competitors. Surely EVERYONE should support this?

Then with full access to facts, it would come down to:

Whether or not doping with testosterone is allowed.

Whether or not self id gender id is allowed.

Whether or not males with various DSD belong in male or female categories.

Then these two boxers would not have the whole world speculating on their medical history! The arguments people would be having would be about hypothetical cases not individual cases.

Some misogynists people clearly don't believe in female sports. Fine! But argue your position from a basis of facts, not using smoke and mirrors and emotional manipulation around the lives of these two boxers.

There’s a picture of the Algerian in some revealing shorts from a previous fight. Very revealing…..

This is an interesting question.

I was wondering whether they would have periods?

Such an obvious mismatch, particularly with Lin Yu-ting's "long lean torso" as the commentator described it, just about the only accurate description of Yu-ting that he gave during the fight. such collusion with the big lie from our supposedly impartial BBC.

Christ there is some bat-shittery on LinkedIn right now as well.

Frothing posts about “white womens tears” and how awful that these two women are being abused for not up holding stereotypical views of what women look like. Saying people are being both racist and misogynistic. Seemingly intelligent professionals saying things like “She is a women with a medical condition that means she has XY chromosomes” 😵‍💫

Then seeing some of my favourite colleagues liking these posts 🫠 And don’t get me started on the feckin “female ally” tossers that seem to be cluttering up my feed with their virtue signalling bollocks.

I have a leadership position in my org so I am having to manage myself carefully - but have so far very calmly corrected a few “facts” and directed people to the Ross Tucker science of sport episode on this issue

I am so angry I feel like I might pop. I just want to go to a weekend retreat with a bunch of posters from this forum and let rip 🤣

Yes I agree, but I thought it had been reported that the Algerian boxer had indecended testes and had gone through male puberty, despite being classified female on birth records. That her testosterone came from the testes, not from ovaries. The male puberty comment made me wonder whether the boxer shaves every morning and whether her voice broke at 14. These are just indicators of male rather than female I would have thought. If she has no facial hair growing and a woman’s voice then it would be easier to accept the argument for inclusion.

Are there any clips of the Algerian boxer talking? I went on their instagram account but it's just photos.

Frothing posts about “white womens tears” and how awful that these two women are being abused for not up holding stereotypical views of what women look like. Saying people are being both racist and misogynistic. Seemingly intelligent professionals saying things like “She is a women with a medical condition that means she has XY chromosomes” 😵‍💫

There seems to have been a mass outbreak of articles and posts and memes all saying this. Lots of stuff about how no one thought he was a man when he lost a match and posts about how these men are the most admirable and oppressed of women. It makes absolutely zero sense but it's everywhere and even people I thought were of normal intelligence are spamming this stuff like it's their personal job to convince the world that women can have XY chromosomes and go through male puberty.

I heard the Algerian speak. Just a short statement but I thought masculine and I wasn't even thinking about it.

On a lighter note, most of the women my age would fail any test on facial hair😂

What was the Algerian boxer saying? "I'm a woman, you're all meanies" by any chance?

I heard an interview with Khelif (sp?) And voice is midrange. Could be a higher pitched male, could be a husky female.

Interesting. The huge reach is so obvious and is what makes it so tough for Sitora. Lin knows it and doesn’t even bother with a defensive stance. The fists are down at the sides almost all the time. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a boxer make so little defensive effort.

When Sitora enters within Lin’s reach to try and land a punch, Lin simply thuds home with that long, long arm.

Yup. Remember the acronym rejig: “Tired of Explaining Reality to Fuckwits”?
It interesting on Twix at the moment. It used to be awful, with transactivists in the ascendant, outnumbering women on every thread, but recently the opposite has been true and women fighting for women now outnumber them. The current furore has led to a massive increase in anti-woman rhetoric again.

This tweet sums up what’s happening incredibly well:

https://x.com/Serena_Partrick/status/1819997560758481274

For those not on Twix, it says:

Male people shouldn't be in female sport.
^^
"They once wore pink!"
^^
Male people shouldn't be in female sport.
^^
"They've been fighting women for years!"
^^
Male people shouldn't be in female sport.
^^
"Michael Phelps! Michael Jordan! Ronnie Coleman! Great athletes have physical advantages!"
^^
Male people shouldn't be in female sport.
^^
"They're women with male chromosomes and male levels of testosterone, like Caster Semenya!"
^^
Male people shouldn't be in female sport.
^^
"We've all got testosterone!"
^^
Male people shouldn't be in female sports.
^^
"You're obsessed with femininity!"
^^
Male people shouldn't be in female sport.
^^
"They're not trans!"
^^
Male people shouldn't be in female sport.
^^
"Shut up you ugly man looking Nazi bigot, who cut your hair, bet you did it, you're a stupid moron who should get a life, or just do the world a favour stick your head in the oven."
^^
Male people shouldn't be in female sport.

Perfectly put.

@Alphavilla

If these two boxers have the same DSD as Caster Semenya (5-ARDS) then they wouldn't have much facial or body hair as they aren't able to convert their testosterone into DHT which is known to drive beard growth. They would experience some voice deepening but they don't menstruate as they don't have a uterus.

medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/5-alpha-reductase-deficiency/

It's easy to blame BBC or other commentators, but all media at the Games have their accreditation on the strict understanding that the keep to the IOC standards, and that means following their policy on men in women's games.

You may be very sure that the commentator was aware of what was happening in the ring, but they will have been told very forcefully by the producer not to risk their own job and the BBC's presence at the games by stepping out of line.

They could refer to the boxer by name only.

Is it the BBC's job to run cover for the IOC telling lies or is it to uphold the truth on behalf of the British tax payers who pay for them?

The BBC should take a stand and if the IOC say we are withdrawing your rights to show the Olympics they should let them then widely report on why the BBC doesn't have coverage.

This might win them some fans back from the wide range of tax payers who would happily see them defunded at this point.

On Facebook there are posters saying that they are women and if we disagree we are defining what a woman looks like. I did try to explain but have given up as there is too much abuse about white tears, etc. I hope we are correct as this will not go away until there is scientific evidence either way.

Yes it would be great to see the BBC take a stand on this but very unfortunately it's not their battle.
Having spent millions of licence payers' money on broadcasting rights they are committed to cover all of the events for those who expected to see them.

I can imagine the uproar from fans who missed their sports coverage after 'the BBC squandered millions of licence payers' money over a grand gesture' as the Mail would scream

There is scientific evidence. It's in the chromosomes. XY <> XX.

That's a fair point. I'm just so utterly frustrated by the general lack of curiosity in journalism to pursue the issue out of a moral belief in the truth.

Believe me I'm just as infuriated at this as you.